308 engine out major service

As promised, I am about to embark on an ambitious project to freshen up 1977 308 GTB #21645.

Just to add insult to injury a little history may be of interest. This car came to me from a fellow in NJ, a former Fchat member who got kind of burned buying the car sight unseen off ebay. To further his dis-satisfaction, the work he had done to the car by a local shop, was horrific and costly. The only positive he got was a set of brand new carbs, but then they kept his old ones which i would probably have rather had? The car had no records, and the only history I have pulled together is its chain of ownership since new. Of those only two of those owners were willing to speak about the car. It supposedly recieved a major service sometime in the early 80's by the second owner, the third owner mostly had a shop that kept it running. I have no knowledge beyond this, so I assume the engine has never been out, nor ever apart, since leaving Maranello in May of 1977.

I purchased the car as a parts car to help me put together my other project 308. Yes, I was not only crazy enough to buy one POS 308, I bought another one to match it! It was in deplorable condition. Both headers were blown, the muffler was gone, the paint was dull and oxidized, the engine was absolutley filthy, grease and dirt inches thick all underneath it and all over the engine and gearbox. Wiring for sound system equipment and MSD ignition was ran through the car, unfused off the battery with #8 wires, the MSD feed wire was even nicely wrapped around the cracked and rotted fill hose to the fuel tank to keep it from moving around. For an example of how she looked when I got her home, this car; http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=175580 would be a close match. So when people argue against buying these project cars, I kind of sigh. It can be done economically if you have the desire and the ability.

When I got her home I fully intended to strip it and part it out. First was to remove all the junk wiring. Then I started wondering just what life was left in her. A compression test showed she was fully alive, but a look at the timing belts and the leaking cam seals said she needed a lot of service. I didnt get the title on the car right away because of a hold up with NJ DOT, so I took the time to just clean it up. I got in there and washed down the engine, and just kept pulling off parts. Another day just standing around, I took some wet dry sand paper after the paint just to see if it had any life. I ended up wet sanding the whole car and began polishing on it. One thing led to another, and instead of becoming a parts car, my first car fed it parts and I slowly brought it back to life. In fact I was able to take the car out that fall and drive off into the backwoods of Wisconsin for my birthday. I put over 400 miles on that day and she never missed a beat. I also attended an Italian car and motorcycle event a year ago with this car, and it rained all the way there and back. Probably 100 miles of soaking wet rain, and again she never so much as sputtered.

Which brings us to today. I had already begun working on the interior after removing the windshield due to its impropper installation by the hacks out east. So I have now redone the dash and cieling in leather. Ive also returned to the paint, only now I'm respraying over small areas and polishing it out further. I have the whole winter to mess with it so we'll see where I get by spring. But for today, she's getting her heart yanked. And because there is so much banter as to how hard or how long it takes to perform particular jobs on these cars, I will run a time line. As I remove each component I will note the time. I intend to undo everything myself with only hand tools. When the pull comes, hopefully this afternoon, I have both my new friendly neighbor, and my son available to help steer her out. My intent is to remove the clutch housing and rear header, and leave the front header, starter and alternator and sneak it out with them installed. I also intend not to tilt it. I got the motor out of the other car without tilting it, so we'll see how this works. My starting point was actually yesterday, when my son helped me remove the rear deck lid and set it aside. It took less than 5 minutes. The AC compressor was left off when I had the car apart last year, so that wont be involved today. But at most I would add 30 minutes to get it out of your way, either by fully disconnecting it, or swinging it aside. So, time to clock in. I'll post some pictures later if or when I take a break.

 

This is very cool. I especially like your attitude towards the cars. I am about to purchase my first and plan to do most of the work myself. I can't wait to see some pictures. I am interested in seeing how much work the engine out service entails. I may want to do it this way myself. I will be going thru the whole fuel and cooling system so this may be the best approach.

 

Fantastic! This thread will be great.

 

*waiting for pics* ....lots and lots of 'em.

 

Paul, so now you have two 308? Good decision about keeping both running. I hate to see a complete 308 being part out.
Do you have any part for sale?

 

Yes, I have two. #21181 and #21645. But not really anything extra I want to part with yet. Unless I have three of something im keeping my cards tight to my chest and holding out til the last dog is hung.

Okay, its 11:30. The preliminary job of getting started is accomplished, namely dealing with getting the car up to gain access, draining all the fluids, and cleaning up the inevitable spills. Because the coolant drain at the radiator spills onto the front valance/spoiler, it kind off washes over the lip and spills all over. You need a wide drain pan to catch it, and ya know you have to place the jack stand in exactly the spot where all the coolant drains. Quick grab the jack, move the stand, place the drain pan.... So I have coolant all over the floor. Things went much better at the rear. The block drain opened rather easy, and not a lot of drips or spills back there. I have floor dry down and will get the floor all cleaned up and recommence the effort after I get some food into me. I started just about 10:00, so I guess I been fartin around a lil to much drinking coffee. I'll give another update later. Heres some pics of where I began this morning and where im at right now.
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Very cool Paul! I'd like to come out there some day and see what it looks like when the motor is pulled. It looks like you have a great garage setup too.

Paul

 

+1 on the garage set up! You have a nice little corner heater. I just installed a small electric one to keep the garage a balmy 50deg on those 30deg winter days here in Indiana.

Can't wait to follow this thread as I'm planning to do the same this time next year.

JIM

 

is that floor a race deck that get snaped together,or tiles that stick to the floor? next summer that will be my next project! at least with two 308's next to each other if your not sure about something you just go to the other and see how it looks on the other........cool

 

Good luck with it Paul.

I'll be keeping a eye on this project, maybe i'll learn something.

 

OK Paul , good luck and I'll be watching with interest. I have 20927 and it is in great shape so hopefully I'll never have to pull it apart. Also how many miles on yours. Keep going and enjoy.

 

BTW, that car looks pretty darn good for a POS .

 

should look like a real ferrari when he's done

Good luck on the project !!! We all await the play by play, when your done !!

Cheers !!!

Another saved !!

 

Damn Paul, I just sent to the recycler 15 inner and outer wheel halfs for your car.

Dave

 

Paul, it looks you're attacking it with a vengeance.

Now if I can just get into that comfy chair and watch.
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Lots of pic. Good writing as well. Feels like were all hanging out with ya. Where's a rag and the coffee? Where In!

 

Very cool. This is gonna be a good one!

 

Well, its been a day. I hadnt realised how long ive been sitting around on my butt taking it easy, but this job kicked my a$$. I havent been this sore and tired in a while. Everything went pretty well until I got to the drive axles. I fought with just about everyone of those bolts, had to heat several of the nuts to break them loose, took me two flippin hours. If I hadnt been interupted, hadnt taken long breaks, and was 20 years younger the motor would have been out at 3PM. Well, welcome to the "real" world.

Okay so got the mess cleaned up, ate, sat and looked at it a while wondering what the hell am I doing this for. Oh yeah, DUH! I didnt actually get back on it til 1PM. Phone, people stopped by, etc... Took me all of 8 minutes to get the wheel wells out. By 2PM, I had the airbox, air tubes, dizzys and the oil cooler off. By 3PM I had the the timing belt covers off, coolant tank off, fuel lines and throttle disconnected. By 4PM I had the muffler off, the motor mounts loose (but still attached), clutch cable off, transfer gear cover off, rear reaction rod removed from rear cam cover. The clutch housing fought me for a while, stupid snap ring pliers kept slipping off, and at 4:30 I went after the axles. First three were a breeze, thinking outloud "boy, I'll have these axles out in no time". Every dang bolt afterwards was like pulling tree stumps. Renee held dinner for me, and at 6:30 I sat down tired as a dog to the table. Before I even got the last bolt I had already decided to wait til tomorrow to pull it out. I spent a lil bit of the evening cleaning up, putting stuff away, then turned out the lights and told myself I'm done. Now I have to find a place to stash all this stuff, LOL.

I dont feel I did to bad though. It went a lot faster on the other car, but I hadnt been sitting around on my butt so much and was in a lot better shape. I really think it would be out right now if that snap ring and the axle bolts hadnt slowed me down. As it is now, its ready to lift out. i have to put the wheels back on and set the car back down so it will roll, then hook up the motor and lift it out. If all goes well it shouldnt take another hour.

And I dont for a second think its not necessary. Last year I cut two inches off the heater coolant line on the rear head and reclamped it just to drive it a while. When I undone the clamp to remove it, the hose tore off in my hand instead of twisting off the nipple. Its junk hose. And the vacuum line to the brakes is junk too. And its deteriorated significantly more just over the last year. Also, while I capped off and bypassed all the evaporation fuel lines, and replaced the main fuel lines with aeroquip, the remaining evap hose has drastically deteriorated, most of it just crumbles in my hands if I squeeze it. It was dry rotted last year, but compared to 14 some months ago its night and day. And even after I had cleaned the engine for hours with solvent and brushes, there is still tons of caked on filth and grease. The frame rails are caked an 1/8 inch thick in places. But the engine oil was black, and that bothered me. I have changed it four times since I got, and have only put about 2K miles on it. I ran two quarts MMO in it before each change, it should have cleaned up. The oil in it barely has 500 miles on it. Be interesting to see inside if there are any sludge deposits. On the plus side my cam seals and cam cover gaskets havnt leaked, so hopefully ive mastered that detail.

Has it ever been out? Maybe. The motor mount bolts were not caveman tight and look newish, still cad plated and shiny if my eyes didnt decieve me. Clutch looks newer, certainly not looking 30 years old. But none of the hose seems ever to have been replaced. The main coolant lines still have those wrapped type hose clamps, and the hose looks decayed and oxidised. Again, a lot worse than a year ago.

Lets see. Questions.

Paul308, your welcome anytime. PM me and we can figure out how to hook up, maybe your friend Dave would like to come see??? Ditto for just about anyone else.

Miles on the car read 44K. Probably pretty realistic wear and tear wise, as well as owner history I have, but miles or not, 30 years is a long time to expect anything to stay pristine.

Irondogmike, the floor is $0.53 tile from HomeDepot. Did the whole floor 3 1/2 years ago for under $500. If I were doing a lot of heavy work I think it would tear it up pretty fast, but the tiles are so cheap I dont even care if they get torn up. Cleans up pretty nice and shines if you put some elbow grease into it. With the prices they want for racedeck, I would probably look into some kind of stone tile.

Dave Helms, what the hell ya go and do that fer?

Heres a few pics, I'll hit her hard again tomorrow. Probably afternoon before I try to pull it. Now its time for some brandy.
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Oh. The jack under the left rear hub? You have to compress the suspension to fish the muffler out, so thought id show the procedure. Otherwise the drive axle captures it and youll never get it out. I also thought I would show a pic of my ANSA #1940 muffler. ANSA said it went out of production about 15 years ago, and was listed for a 308 GT4. It doesnt fit right, but it was all they had in the early years to replace that 130 pound boat anchor they came with. The second owner put the wheels on the car in 1983 along with the muffler. I figure she looks pretty decent for a 25 year old muffler LOL.

Boy oh boy a 4 post hoist would be a God send. Maybe Santa will bring one? Probably not this year

 

Paul,

I also have an ANSA FE1940 muffler mounted on my car. Records show that it was installed in 1982 and modified to permit clearance of the rear valance. I had it repainted five years ago.

Barry
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looks pretty tidy and dry in there mate !! You need the mesh net for the exhaust on the glass car though, im looking for one myself.

 

Well, I tried to prove the theory that the engine could come out with the front header installed. We lifted from the front, and from the rear, it just woundnt make it. I actually unbolted the header with the motor hanging up off the frame and worked over the front of the engine. Man was that fast and easy. Dont think you could install it that way though.

Pretty uneventful day otherwise. I puttered around sorting out the nuts and bolts, put everything in baggies and boxed up a lot of the parts, cleared the deck. Got things organised better, then took it easy until help arrived. Normally I just pull engine's by myself, but not with these, its just to easy to hard to see everything at once and it is really tight. Son and his friend came over late this afternoon and we went to work hauling it out. If the header hadnt been on, it would have been out in no time. Instead, fooling around with it took a couple hours. But it sure is a nasty greasy place to do any work. Funny thing was the young man helping us asked how old it was after it was all said and done, and when I told him it was a 1977 he really raised his eyebrows. I asked him how old he thought and he said he thought it was an early 90's. Score another one for PininFarina.

So, here's some dirty pictures. Looks like I have my work cut out for me.
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No doubt, labor of total love....im sure the end result will be fantastic. Enjoy the moments, it makes the 1st drive so damn sweet i heard.

 

I can hardly wait. I think overhauling and doing a performance rebuild on a 308 would be a major high point/fun/life goal for a serious gear head - particularly if there was a "reasonable" budget.

We seriously disturbed owners watch with avid interest.

chris

ps, sliding it through a few turns, massively sideways and foot to the floor, at the local raceway, wouldn't hurt the experience either.

"a man has got to understand his limitations..."

 

This thread is great. I really enjoy the detail and time spent on the updates.Thanks for keeping us informed. I am still LOL from 2NAs pics of the popcorn and beer.