POP me a round trip ticket or two, I"ll bring Mike with me and we'll make that sucker fit!! Looks like you have every possible tool imaginable, so I would guess that Mike could get it to come around. I'll hold the flashlight. I know you'll get it, every job has that moment where you say, "OH ****" followed by "HAH!! GOT IT!." You're just stuck for the moment on phase one. Dave
Jon, Why not give Fernando a call @ PRESTIGE FERRARI UPHOLSTERY (818) 753-9606. The Dealers defer to him constantly regarding difficult upholstery and glass issues. Just two weeks ago he installed both front and back glass in a freshly painted 74 Dino. Hope this helps Cheers, Hank
Hi Jon Sorry to see the problems you are having with the windshield. I have been trying to think laterally so please dont laugh too loudly! The body shell is still supported on a frame rather than the wheels, could this frame be inducing any torsional twist into the shell? I know we all jack the car up in service and I have many times removed the wheels and suspension on my gts but at that stage the windscreen is in place and so far it has not popped out! We all hear that the gts suffers from lack of torsional rigidity relative to the gt, could this be part of the problem? When you stripped the car down was there any sign of accident repair to the doors or the front pillars in that area? I notice that the windscreen fitting is being tried with no doors fitted, are the door gaps still good and have you ever refitted the door windows to establish if the chrome window frame still makes a good fit with the pillar, try both sides if there is a problem it could be on either side. These may be red herrings but at least checking them might cross them off a list of potential problems. Good Luck and keep up the good work Best regards Dave
Jon, try to place the roof back on the car to see how it fits. I can't imagine there any flexing going on as a result of the car not bening on the ground... I'm thinking... I'm thinking... Pietro
While there is undoubtedly some loss of rigidity in the GTS, it is relatively minor (as in absolutely no noticeable scuttle shake on my car). Any substantial inherent flex in the windshield frame (or enough to be contributing to Jon's problem) would result in cracked glass on rough or uneven pavement, would it not? I have never heard of this being an issue with these cars. My guess is that it's an issue of mfg. tolerances with the glass and/or the frame. Like Pietro, I can't see this as a flex issue.
Maybe you have tried this (i didnt see it in your previous posts) if so pls excuse...however i had the exact same problem on an xke coupe that i was restoring...drove me nuts. I even had the original glass that we were re-installing and COULD NOT get the windshield to fit. It kept sticking up on the lower right side. The guy that installed it finally opened the doors and jacked the right front corner up and it induced enough flex (and this was a coupe) to alow the window to fit. He gently lowered it and it has been fine ever since (about 5 years) ...no cracks. It might work for your GTS.
...but I suffered the same nightmare. Many months ago I mentioned to you an issue concerning the windshield fit. The exact same thing happened to me. In the aforementioned post (or conversation) I mentioned that it would be a good idea to lay the windshield into the frame before finishing the blocking and sanding. During sandblasting of my car it appears that some of the factory bondo was removed. Furthermore, during prime-ing and sanding the window frame additional filler was removed. When finished the window would not fit as it did before embarking on this endeavor. I believe that the factory used filler to get the window to fit...fill in gaps, etc. Then they painted. However, if I read your post correctly, you have a corner of the glass sticking out. This may be related to geometry rather than filler. On the other hand, filler on one side might change the geometry on the other. At this point I would consider blocking the frame on the side opposite the mis-fit. This will allow the windshield to sit farther away from the problem An alternative would be to carefull shave 1/4 inch of rubber from the channel of the windshield seal on the side opposite the problem. Otherwise, you are looking at sanding the channel and using filler to get things to fit. Then a respray of the frame is in order. This is not too difficult, as masking the remainder of the car would be easy. In addition, one's eye is not drawn to the window frame. Jim S.
Thanks for all your ideas. I'm going to check out all these today, and take some measurements. I was thinking in the middle of the night (no sleep) last night that if the problem is the lower left maybe the problem is the upper right. If that was pushed out 1/4" would not that bring the lower left in further? I'm going to measure that and see if the space for the targa top is the same on both sides. Other than that, the glass seems to fit fine everywhere else. What is really strange when I laid it in the coupe with that winshield out the sides fit fine but it was to short up and down and needed to extend towards the front of the car about 1/2". All very puzzling.
jon, is there a way a la james' idea of using a dremel tool to "hog out" the opposite side of the window gasket to get a little more working room? i suspect you could create an extra 1/4 inch w/o too much trouble. i am not certain how the rubber is to work with as i have never tried this. if this works i would attempt to "hog out" the other side to take up the additional 1/4 inch. a worst, you risk a window gasket. i would try this before cutting into the window frame. has gary b. ever seen this happen? if so, how has he delt with it? good luck, pcb
Was there any evidence of damage on the car when you stripped the car for paint? I had this same problem when we did a frame off on my 56 t bird. I had all the body work done, everything painted and installed. The last thing we did was install the windshield only to find that the frame was bent and just like my Dino, there is no easy place to break the paint line.... When I replaced the windshield in my Dino, it was a challenge, but it eventually fit, I could not believe how much you can manipulate glass! (I still have my original windshield in the crate, just in case) I wish I had an easy fix, but the glass seems to vary a lot and the tolerances on these cars vary significantly, I think I would install it and let it set a few days and try to see if the glass will relax, sounds silly even to me, but that is what they did on my Dino and it eventually worked.
Jon when something doesnt go quite right do something else on the car the next day and then come back to it, things always seem better Have pm you home number of the ex bodywork manager of Ferrari UK (Mike Osgood) already spoken to him about it. Will be worth talking to him ,as he has fitted quite a few. Good Luck Stephen
Glass is a liquid albeit a very very viscous one proven by the fact that windows in old houses are thicker at the bottom... Either way, I know this situation will work itself out. I just hope that the pillar wasn't damaged somehow after the original windshield was removed...
I did the finishing touches with the motor on the test stand, so it's ready to fire up. I dug through my old pictures and think I have found the problem. Unfortunately the glass is fine. If you notice where the crease is on the windshield pillar, it lines up with the curvature at the bottom of the windshield. The original pictures show it this way. In the blasting booth you can see what appears to be the factory filler. The after painted shot definetly show a difference. This area is going to have to be reworked. I'm not sure what will be involved or at what stage I should do this. As it's off the rotisserie and on my lift, my thoughts are to get the engine in all the suspension, really everything but the interior then have that fixed and do the interior last. Any thoughts out there. Selevan was right on that it was a body problem. I sort of do recall him suggesting to take the windshield to the body shop to make sure it fits. Sure would of saved a lot of grief. Another lesson learned the hard. I have a lot of those now etched permanently in my mind. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Jon, Might plan on putting something to dampen the muffler vibration when you fire it up. Muffler is a long way out there and there is no mass on your test stand. Even a cardboard box would keep things a little calm. Be a good idea to add nuts to the top of the motor mounts too. Looks like you did find one of the reasons that Ferrari took over assembly almost immediately. Let things sit and think about them for a while. The windshield fit worked once, it can work again. Just needs a little TLC. John
John C. - the muffler will hang steady as a rock. There is virtually no vibration from the engine while running. If one is concerned, a 2"x4" propped vertically under the muffler will do fine. When I've run Dino engines on the stand (just finished my 5th out of body experience), the muffler hangs without the slightest problem. The first few times I did prop something under it, but soon found this to be unecessary. Jim S.
Jon, I think you are right. Your idea makes sense and I can see how the crease does not line up. It seems that applying filler to make the windshield fit would be something that Ferrari would have done back in the 70's.
Closing the passenger door on several GTSs (owners' names withheld to protect the guilty) that I have seen causes the windshield header and post/pillar on the passenger side to shift maybe 1/8" to 1/4", but I haven't seen the same thing happen when closing the driver's door. Do you recall if your Dino originally did too before you dismantled it? Mark
Jon: You might consider doing the winshield "repair" work before putting anything else into the car. With sanding, dondo blocking, etc. that's going to be needed to do the "repair" and then blending everything the dust will get everywhere and make things really dirty and very difficult to get REALLY clean. Just a thought. Glad you seem to have found the problem. Alberto
