Would you rather buy a low-mileage Ferrari, or one that's been driven?

Just wondering.

Would anyone her buy a "garage-queen" low-mileage Ferrari?

Or instead, buy one that's accumulated lots of miles?

 

Hard to say. I would say that condition trumps all.

You could have a car with 200,000 miles on it but it was owned by someone super OCD about maint / mechanics and the car is in better shapre than when it left the showroom floor.

Or you could get a garage queen with 2000 miles and dry rotted tires, brake lines, hoses, varnish in the gas tank, etc. because it didn't even get driven the last 5 years.

My gut tells me that a car which is driven is going to actually be better maintained than a garage queen which may not even see the light of day.

 

I'd look for a car that has been driven at least 2000 - 3000 miles per year for the past 2 years. That way, even if it mostly sat for many years prior to that period of higher activity, most of the bugs have been worked out by the recent use.

For example, take a look at this 1974 246 GTS for sale on Michael Sheehan's website:
http://www.ferraris-online.com/pages/carintro.php?reqcardir=FE-246GTS-07594

Here is the text of all the fixes down since it started to get driven more from 2 years ago:

"Two years and 3,500 miles ago 246 GTS s/n 07594 was treated to a full engine–out service, new head gaskets and a re–seal. The Webers were rebuilt, new radiator cooling fan motors were fitted and the radiator was rodded out. The fuel tanks were chemically cleaned, a new fuel cap, new tank straps, a new fuel pump and fuel filter were fitted. New front to back radiator hoses, all new engine hoses and Gemi clamps were fitted and the water pump was rebuilt with a new impeller. New aluminum water tubes were installed. New high pressure braided oil cooler lines and new OEM brake hoses were fitted, as were new rear calipers and rotors. The headers were Jet Hot ceramic coated black. A new ANSA muffler and new Valeo clutch were installed. The engine bay was detailed while the mechanicals were out."

That is the kind of stuff that can need fixing when a car sits for quite a while. One of the pictures shows the odometer having 45,596 miles on it. I assume it hasn't rolled over 100k miles, so it probably has a total of 45k miles on it over its life span of 33 years. I love that Rosso Rubino color on it. Hopefully Mr. Sheehan won't mind if I post a picture of it here. (Usual disclaimer, I have no connection to car, ad, or dealer).
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Depends.

The good thing with a low mileage is that you know the car hasnt been misused or trashed . You are like the first owner eventhough you will probably have to spend some $ to change fluids , etc...depending how long the car sat.The other drawback is that you are buying a time capsule car and you might feel guilty putting decent mileages on it.

 

Well, I can tell you as I try to sell my "high mileage" 512 TR (31k) that I have had a number of people inquire that were immediately disinterested because of the miles (in fact, that would be all of them in three months). It's had a regular 2k miles a year, with a stack of service records an inch and a half thick. Most people are not even interested in hearing another word after "31k miles".

What I don't get is the mentality: you want a car that is in good condition to drive and enjoy. Everyone agrees that cars are preserved better if they are driven regularly. OK, so you buy a car with 10k miles and drive it for 15k miles over say 8 years. Then you have a 25k miles car. But a clean 512TR with 10k miles is probably near to 115k now, whereas a car like mine is worth 95k, maybe less. Will the 25k car really be worth 20k more than a 45k car in 8 years? You really are investing the price difference in the car. I think there are probably safer investments out there. But that is certainly not how others see it.

Of course, some of this is me whining because I seem to be stuck with a car that everybody says is fantastic, but nobody wants.

 

For buyers

A 360 with under 10K miles always trumps a 360 with over 10K, so if you are nearing 10K stop driving.

One with 5 to 9 K seems much more attractive than one with 10K or more.

One with 1 to 5 K is even more attractive.

I don't blame the buyer. At the same price would you buy the 2004 360 with 30K, or the one with 20K or the one with 10K or the one with 5K? Come on, be honest. I'd jump on the 5K and if that was already sold, the one with 10K. No PPI is going to go into such detail that you can judge the fexibility of seals and rubber and gaskets more often used in the 20K car. Everyone likes the low miles.

Now my spin on the issue. I pretty soon realized that I like to drive the car (more so when going to a public event) so I could not keep the milage down. Them that never drives, nice that they can recover all that they paid or maybe a sliver more when they get out. I do not view my 360 as a collector's item. It is painful that driving a 5K car to 15K may cost 10 to 15 thousand in resale, but I didn't have the option to buy a high milage used 350 that I liked. I can afford the depreciation. If you drive it, a Ferrari does depreciate painfully.

I think some of the people who are banking 360's - low milage perfect condition, may discover depreciation of their own as the 430 and progenity get out there. I don't really care. Anyone can buy one of my type cars and try to make money on it or to not loose much on it but driving mine is one of the few self indulgences I allow and I like it so much the simple knowledge I get to drive it tomorrow (to th shop for buff up) makes my day today a little brighter.

 

IF i ever bought a ferrari i would try to get one with low miles.

 

Actually what I just did was I justified a trip to the shop for my F car.

Now I am really going to cure myself, personally, of this milage cult. Like an addict hitting the gutter, I see myself driving for a maintenance and patting myself on the back for turning the key.

When I bought her, the dealer told the story of a high powered wall street [something] who bought a 360 to drive to the city every day. He said the car ended up looking like **** and the buyer put in his years and retired (even alittle early).

I'll bet that mythical buyer had more fun with his Ferrari than I have had to date. Today I expect zero resale on my dinky 360. I drive tomorrow. I'll buy a F50 if I want a godess to worship.

 

Sad but true. Ferraris don't retain value well unless they sit around. 30K isn't that much for a 308, but for a '90s Ferrari it's higher than average.

A car with 200,000 miles on it is living on borrowed time (and I've never seen a Ferrari hit that number on its original drivetrain). Unless it has been rebuilt/restored, it won't be in "better shape than when it left the showroom floor."

Here's the hard truth: A major service on a 308 with 200,000 miles on it, basically no resale value, is about $4000. A major service on a pristine, 8,000-mile 308 QV, that you could sell in a matter of days, is about $4000. If the garage queen's engine passes compression/leakdown tests, you buy that one.

If it doesn't -- you probably still buy it, because either car is going to need an expensive rebuild, and unless it's a classic/rare Ferrari there's no upside left in the high-mileage car after a restoration.

 

I hear the arguments for higher milage.

The closer to the factory...the more I like it.



Hey Bullfighter!

Not a big country music fan myself, but, I see your point. For the bene's, I'm sure it could be an aquired taste...

 

I would rather not care and drive whatever Ferrari I get into the ground. Curse resale value!!

I wouldn't know, as I've never bought/sold one. What I do know is that if I'm driving past you in a 45,000 mile Ferrari, well, the oogler in the other lane isn't going to point his fat finger and say, "What?? A 45K mile Ferrari?? Bah. I'd rather have a brand new Corvette." Get my drift?

 

Ferraris don't retain value well unless they sit around

Yup yup yup. F cars had super resale value if you never drive them. If you drive them they depreciate.

If you drive them they cost alot in maintence.

So buy a Porsche or something. A friend bought a Corvette Z something with 500 HP. We both went to the same fundraiser. MY car was parked at the entrance the entire evening, his car was parked in the garage - after all it was just a Chevy.

 

seems pretty simple - if you're going to put a lot of miles on youself, get a higher mileage car. you pay a lot less and the depreciation resulting from additional mileage will have a lot less impact. if not, and you're concerned about resale value, you're probably better off with a low mileage car.

for example i'm looking for a 308qv or 328 and will likely put on 5-6k miles a year, maybe more. a nice 328 with 20k or 30k miles today will suffer a greater loss of value after several years at that rate of mileage accumulation than one with 50k or 60k, and the second will cost less to purchase. i'm looking at a 1985 308qv this week with 92k on the clock but with a fresh major maintenance - ready to run, and i won't have to feel "guilty" about racking up the miles.

 

You are correct...200k on the clock was a bit of hyperbole on my part.

However, I do have an example though from the Corvette world. One was a buddy of mine who just sold his '93 LT1 6 Speed for $10,000 with 140k on the clock. The other is my father-in-law's '89 L98 Auto with 40k miles. My buddy really knows cars, races wheel-to-wheel, drives the car hard but takes care of them too by immediately replacing any problems. My father-in-law drives the car about 400 miles a year, doesn't really know what is going on with the car and the car is suffering because of it. The 140,000 mile car both interior and exterior, engine and transmission are in far superior shape to the 40k car that has a weaker engine and slipping tranny, a tear in the drivers seat and badly oxidized paint (I've done all me and my trusty porter cable can do).

I would say that because my friend drove the car all the time and knew where any problem areas were coming up, he was able to keep the car running in perfect order. My father-in-law doesn't drive the car enough and just kind of accepts any shortcomings because the car is older. I'm not up there enough or I would refresh/restore the car so I just check the fluids and wash/wax it whenever I am there because I feel bad for it.

Obviously an extreme case but as I first said, you have to look at condition first. This specific example is what I was thinking of. It probably didn't meet the orginal intent of the OP though. So I'll clarify my response. For me, I would prefer that resale has already been killed (as depreciation will tend to flatten out over mileage and I like to drive my cars) so if the condition was equal I would take the higher miles car. If the higher miles car was in worse condition, I would definitely pass. In any case I feel it is always best to buy whatever the highest quality example one can afford as less problems will develop whether the car is driven a lot or not. 9 times out of 10 this will be the car with lower miles, but there is always that 1 out of 10 (or 20 or 50...) chance that the higher miles car is going to end up being the better buy.

 

I would say that for most "true" car guys a well-maintained, one owner exotic that was driven 2-3K/year would trump a multiple owner car that was driven less miles/year. I worry also if the car has too few miles. I saw a 2001 550 Barchetta recently with less than 500 miles...a high performance car 6 years old with so few miles makes me nervous! Although some may disagree, I still believe that the majority of owners of exotic cars do NOT buy these cars to drive....garage art, feelings of importance, chick magnet, or whatever reason! For the select few who do drive them, I think they will agree with me. Do I think about the mileage I put on my car?...of course. Do I think I could die tomorrow? of course. Did I buy my car as an investment? absolutely not. For me the decision is easy...do I drive the car and enjoy it during my likely brief time on planet earth or do I save it for someone else's enjoyment in the hope that I make a few thousand extra dollars on my trade in? For me the answer is easy...no way...I'm driving my car now! Ha.

 

I bough my F430 11 months ago. It had 56 delivery miles on it when I drove her off the lot. Today she has 13,200....yes THIRTEEN THOUSAND, TWO HUNDRED!! I drive that car like there is no tomorrow. I plan on keeping it until the second year of the 430 replacement. By then I'll have easily put another 20K on it. I will have an 06 430 with 30K on the odometer. The funny thing is that I will have enjoyed my time with the car 1000 times more than the guy who is trading in his 06 430 with 3500 miles on it. Yes, he will be happy with his "transaction" but I will be happy with my "experience".

 

+1

The mark of an enthusiast! Of course it helps that you had a brand-new car with a warranty and only delivery miles, but I still salute you.

Sad excerpt from Michael Sheehan's site regarding the history of an F40:

 

For an extreme case, back before I bought my 328, I saw an 11 year old 328 with 200 miles on it. Yep, a total of two hundred miles. The owner *never* drove it. The 200 miles came from services. He was trying to get over $60K for it (original sticker $77K) and couldn't.

From my viewpoint: What a maroon. He had that car for eleven years, and didn't get one single thing out of it. No enjoyment from driving it. And he couldn't even get his original purchase price back, much less service and insurance for all that time.

I'm driving the wheels off my 328. (Well, relatively: it *is* one of three cars I drive, so none of them get 12K a year.) It has over 60K on the clock and counting. If *some* buyers insist on a low miles car, I just won't sell to them. Of course, I'm not planning to sell to *anybody*. I'm enjoying driving it.

Yes, at some point, the engine will require a bottom end rebuild. But you can maintain these cars. If they don't rust away or get in the way of a truck, they'll last roughly forever --- properly maintained.

If you do need to sell, it's just a matter of matching the car to the right buyer. This is the information age. Behold the power of e/commerce: When I sold my (1 of 3000) Celica AllTrac, every dealer in town told me it was "too specialized" to sell. I sold it in under a week --- on the internet. And nobody even asked about the miles.

 

If you are buying a car to look at and care about value, low miles matter at least in the US. Put it in the same quadrant of your mental balance sheet as contemporary art.

If you are buying a car to experience, you will take a bigger hit but it is the best money that you can spend... Put it in the same quadrant of your balance sheet as the kid carrier.

Nothing in life is for free.

For a late model production Ferrari, I would only buy it if I intended to use it. For my older cars I use them whenever I want to as I simply don't care about impact on value and next owner's approval

 

Lets say you buy a 550, keep it ten years, and look to keep it under 30k miles for the resale value. That means you paid more then 100k for those 30k miles. Quite expensive against the 20k for 70k miles more (the deeper resale value). I never understood the psychology of this.

 

hey thats my car.... well taken care of ...and driven by yours truly i every chance i got....buy one thats been driven for all reasons been mentioned......MO

 

I guess it depends on what you call low milage. To me a low milage car is one that does 2000 miles a year. That is also the type of car I am looking for if I just want to drive it and not invest in it. So for a 30 year old car , 60,000 miles is a good low milage car. If I am looking for an exotic for R&R then I would look for a garage queen. My 2 cents

 

You are assuming an extra 50K miles "costs" you $20K. I would wager those figures are a guess. The prople who report on this board about their personal experience selling higher milage F cars always seem to use the words "can't sell" or "no interest".

My dealer said that I could drive about 3K a year, but I have a 2003 and I never, never saw a 2003 360 for sale at any of the local dealers that had 12,000 miles on the odo, never.

I don;t mind a $10K or a $20K hit to enjoy rather than look at my purchase, but if it is an unsellable car because people view the maintenance and upkeep as too expensive in relation to the value, I guess I'm screwed. That's the way I view some of the $50-60K older modern Fcars. It's a $60K experience and it would cost me $5k or so a year to own so I'll pass.

On the other hand, at the FCA event at Lime Rock I ran into a guy who drove his 360 all he wanted and traded it on a F430. Said he took a hit and got in the range of $120K for his spider. At that time I think the asking for a low milage spider was $180-205K

 

Whatever happened to buying the ferrari of your dreams, and the hell with what everyone thinks of whether its a garage queen or high mileage, or average mile?

 

The guesses are based on watching the (local swiss and german) 550 market a bit by watching the ads on internetplatforms. But as anyone I cannot see what most cars are really traded for. Offers for a higher mileage are seldom, too. I can't imagine that "can't sell" and "no interest" wont be broken when the price is low enough.