Tyre warmer ban in 09 good or bad idea

Competition breeds innovation, if this makes racing closer we will see more technology.

 

It totally depends on your own personal school of thought about F1:

1) Is it truly the pinnacle of motorsports, where ALL of the best ideas to go faster are invented, developed, and evolved ?

*OR*

2) Do you want to draw a line somewhere and decide if something is not worthy of the sport, no matter what it is ?

Now, to me, the pinnacle of the sport was back in the 60's and 70's, where you just didn't have all the stuff you have today, the things that help drive the costs through the roof, but in terms of safety, you developed carbon fibre, fuel cells, and started wind tunnel testing, to name just a few things - but all that came with a (great) price tag.

Where you draw the line is where you want F1 to be, and it's never going to be where I want it to be, which is where a privateer such as Ken Tyrrell or Frank Toleman or Eric Broadley - or even Frank Williams - can field a car and actually be competitiive.

Hell, you can't even do that in nascar anymore, and all motorsports are lesser because of that rotten mathamatical equation:

Speed * Money = how fast do you want to go ?

 

My experience in the track is that it's a safety issue. Need to warm up the tires a lap or two to get the tires warm.

going to have to cool it coming out the pits expecially with no TC. Which means the fewer pit stops the better.

Just one more thing to separate the men from the boyz IMVHO.

Let's go racing.

 

But if it's a true safety issue then ALL motorsports would allow it or risk yet another frivilous lawsuit.

How would these things work in ice-racing ?

 

I've raced at a race meeting once when we were not even allowed to warm the cars tyres up during the warm up lap. I can tell you that the first lap was pretty damn exciting .

In the end I think we are over stating the dangers in modern F1. The cars are so safe that Nuvolari would piss himself laughing. Yes I do not want to see a driver hurt, but I also do not want all dangers removed because then it removes the need for brave drivers in the first place. Racing has to have an element of fear in it to sort the men out from the boys ... otherwise what are we proving?, and thus why bother doing it!! It becomes as interesting as "typing races"

Thus removing tyre warmers will increase testing costs, and will cause a dry race pit stop exit to be a little dangerous. I can accept the danger ... but increasing testing costs, the 2nd largest cost in motorsport is plain stupid. The first is all the PR bullsh!t that the teams unnecessary wank on about and with to snck up to their sponsors ... including overly fancy motorhomes, trucks, etc.
Pete

 

i have no idea if banning is a dangerous idea. but we can expect, should FIA continue and ban them, lock ups and cars sliding off at the 1st corner at the start of races.

 

-1

Glad to see them go. Bring back driver skill. Maybe some short memories here? Back when DC was with McLaren and F1 went to qualifying via one flying lap, he was not up to the challenge. He routinely couldn't get around the track as quickly his first lap out. Put differently, all things being equal, DC needs drivers aids to go fast. Its logical he would want to keep a driver aid.

 

...what David Coulthard should be worried about is his Prostate exam...the only safety there is in that is not making you look silly and worthless...

INDY has WAY higher speeds compared between a car coming of the pitlane and the other on his timed lap, and they dont crash around each other out everytime they step on the gas...

so...it will be like having a race where tires behave like if it where wet for some 4 laps?...THAT CANT BE BAD!!! the best races we´ve seen in the last 15 years have been all in the rain!

 

Yes good point I'am not objecting to the ban just debating the point DC has brought up.

If it does indeed spice up the action all well and good ,just wouldnt want to see something stupid being implemented by the FIA for the sake of 4 laps of drivers warming tyres. I have seen enough crashes when they are on the track, trying to keep heat in them.

 

...can you remember one? because as far as I know...tires were ALWAYS warm...only Ferrari managed to do something as stupid as sending Massa out with no fuel, bring him back pushed to the pit...put fuel in...and send it away with the same tires he already had...hense horribly cold, and he couldnt pass the Q2...

but crashing?...I dont remember that

 

MS remember the jewel that went missing at Monte Carlo. He was warming tyres and brakes behind the safety car when he collided with his nemesis, Juan Pablo Montoya, at the exit of the tunnel. . the master
You didnt see THAT!! shame on you..

 

I didnt miss that...that wasnt cold tires...that was JPM making stupid and dirty things in the tunnel just to make headlines...break testing Michael in the tunnel is just "Dirty-low-triky-driving" as Pruett puts it when JPM took him out in the NASCAR race 1 lap to go...

...there are "dirty" tires, but there is no such thing as "cold tires" since tire warmers kicked in...only wet races, and some rookie slides coming out of pitlane...

oh well, and we will always remember Montoya for taking out so many cars everywhere in the most incredible conditions...or with no tv camera to spot it...top dogs, backmarkers, midfielders...

he has more F1 crashes and more penalties than Senna ever had!...you are absolutely right on that one, he was a MASTER at his game.

 

Its a little of the point but what DC means, I think with regards to Senna is this: The FIA reintroduced the safety car early in the 1994 season, at Round 1. It was, however, met with caution by experienced drivers Ayrton Senna and Gerhard Berger. The pair had complained that the safety car introduced new dangers to the cars following behind it. Their argument was that running at such low speed, for so long, was having the effect of decreasing tyre pressures. This would then result in the car's ride height - an important factor in how the car handles - becoming lower. Simply put, the tyres would get colder, and the car would become harder to drive.

At Round 3, Imola, the reassembled GP Drivers Association (GPDA) met on the morning of the race - a day after Roland Ratzenberger was killed in a fatal accident during practice. Senna was of the more vocal drivers in that meeting, and he was particularly concerned about the use of the safety car on the warm-up lap before the race, as well as in the case of an accident during the race. Along with Berger, he reasoned that the safety car simply was not able to go fast enough, cooling the tyres and decreasing their pressure. At the end of the meeting, the GPDA's proposal to the FIA representative was that the safety car would not be used again.

The San Marino Grand Prix started off with yet another dramatic accident, and contrary to the drivers' request, the safety car was brought out, leading the cars for over 5 laps while track marshalls cleared debris off the track. Then, the race was restarted, only to see Ayrton Senna's car leave the track violently. The Brazilian died in that crash.

I know times are different now and the cars are stronger and Hanns ect.. but you have to ask if the risks are worth it.

And I repeat not against the idea.

 

Great post Steve...and indeed that killed Senna...the altered ride height of his car on cold tires and lower tire pressure made it bottom out and it slided out at a very fast corner...

but tire warmers dont ride along...so is the same nowdays after the safety car comes out...damn Merecedes is so miserably slow you can see the struggle for space behind it...but tire warmers or not, cars are out trying to pick up temp and stay out of the marbles...is just part of the game, and there are quite some involved in F1.

so...is it a safety? or a performance?...for me is very gray...and the lack of warmers will make a fully loaded car out of the pits very unstable and will help the guy behind to catch up or the one ahead to screw big time and go out, or shine and take a commanding lead...BIG SHOW BIG SHOW

...crashing is just one of those things that should be controled, not avoided in F1 racing.

 

The post investigation ruled it as a steering column failure. Though the argument as to what really happened still goes on.

 

That's the theory I believe also and I had seen a video awhile back that showed the sheared steering shart and if you can stomach rematching the race or video, I cant, you can see the front wheel's pointing straight ahead.

 

I have extensive experience in driving my 06 325xi with cold tires here in at SPA (Seward Potholed Autobahn)Anchorage, AK. I have never caused an accident merging onto the highway, nor have I ever felt as though my lap times to and from work were greatly compromised by the lack of sufficient heat in the tires.

(This is a joke, please don't take me serious)

 

...last documentary I saw on Discovery Channel was that the car bottomed out on the belly hense no steering efforts, heading straight to the wall, then the angle of impact broke the right front tire suspention and that tire bounced against the wall and hitted Ayrton in the head...they showed the helmet and the car and some very advanced simulating software to calculate and vitually demonstrate that...

thats the last news I saw...the low temp on the tires caused the accident.

 

Maybe it was a combination of the two because I too remember his car throwing up a shower of spark's. Wow I did not know the Discovery Channel had a documentary on this? I would love to see it.

 

...it was the complete hour deal, the hearings with all the implicates, the proofs, the chassis, the helmet...better try YouTube...although it was aired some 2 years ago...

 

There are many aspects to making a car go quick around a track.

How are you in the wet? The dry? In a car thats not performing its best? How are you for developing a car? Can you drive around a damaged wing? Can you preserve the car and still keep speed?

Of course all drivers want to race on a warm dry track with a perfectly sorted car and an unlimited supply of tires and fuel. But it doesnt work that way - you need to be well rounded. The most successful drivers are good in other areas as well. Schumi was a god in the rain, and he could make a crap car very fast. Alonso is great at preserving the car and a good car developer. Then you have drivers like Villeneuve, Barrichello, Weber, Ralf and many others who make up endless excuses about why they couldn't go faster when the really good drivers shut up and drive around it.

Coulthard is "OK" in a perfect car on a dry warm track with good tires and plenty fuel. But when he has to deal with anything less, he just whines.

Of course he doesnt want tire warmers taken away.... he's a lackluster driver who knows he won't be able to keep up if he loses his drivers aids.

I am happy they are taking them away - the more that drivers do, the better! The only drivers who will go off in the corners are the ones who are immature in their driving and can't handle the pressure and overcook it and go off.

Let them go off.

 

If you looking forward to the end of traction control, then the end of tire warmers would go hand in hand. Let the skilled drivers drive and rise to the top while choking technology as little as possible. Nothing high tech about a tire warmer.

 

I saw the documentary, and I still have a copy of it, great piece. I'm for tire warmers. It's just another thing Mosley wants to take way, everything this guy has done to slow these cars down and promote passing has failed. The engineers and designers are a lot smarter then he is. If they continue to keep this moron in power we will end up with Soap Box derby cars.

 

Where were you in the non-TC and 1,100 horse era called the 80's ?
And on top of that, drivers also had to shift MANUALLY - none of this pushbutton garbage on the steering wheel.

No TC, no tire warmers, shifting manually while exiting a corner when the turbos kick in and kick you in the ass, you learned pretty damned quick on how to drive on 'cold' tires.

 

Ha ha I'am sure you do..