I ordered a set of tubi headers for the 3.2. They look great no kinks (unlike a Larini set I looked at - see archives), and I am having them ceramic coated inside and out. I'll try to post some photos in a couple of weeks. "If you are going to do it,..."
I ordered an exhaust from them the first one was wrong.They took it back.Finally got us model one back.which is good quality.But I think their warehouse is on the moon.Because this process took 2 months.Nice sound though.
mark, do you think there is a performance upgrade here? i thought that your research with the heads showed that the exhaust ports where too large on the 308 qv. Seems like a lot of cash for no performance gain. The supercharger seems like a way better deal.
Bump I am thinking about going with the header setup. Any good or bad stories in the past year and a half since this thread ran?
Well, when i got the muffler section one of the tips had a small nick/dent in it. I took it to a muffler shop and they took care of it. The headers i got as a Christmas present from my brother. He must have gotten a deal cause he wont get anything if he doesn't get the rock bottom price. How they all hook up and sound is still unknown as you can see from the current picture. Image Unavailable, Please Login
I put a Stebro exhaust on my Lotus Esprit V8. Sounds good, but didn't fit right when installed. I ended up having to have a local custom exhaust company fix 2 welds that broke when the muffler bolted in. I agree... their shop/warehouse must be on the moon. -WMF
I installed a set of Stebro headers last year while the engine was out for tranny work. I put them on mainly for better breathing and looks to get rid of the smog fittings. There was nothing wrong with my stock headers. Stebro headers are very well made and they are really good guys to deal with. Headers are stainless and coated inside and out so there is no need for heat shields. My under hood temp is cooler than it was before. They also sound good. The tubes are slightly larger than stock and have smooth bends. Go to their website to see a Vid of how they are made. I do feel the Tubi heades are better as they are 4 into 2 into one. Stebro headers are 4 into one like the stock ones. The problem was that the Tubi headers where twice as much $$$. You can find a set of Stebros under 2K if you look around. Tubi retails for $4300. You can find them for less but still alot of $$ for a set of headers. In a road car you will never notice the diff. I had posted in a diff thread on Stebro headers about their service and delivery. Best to plan on installing these things over the winter or during a rebuild when you have lots of time to wait for parts. My set up is Stebro headers with a Tubi muffler and custom made stainless bypass pipes. You can keep it quiet in town by staying under 3000 RPM or rattle windows at will if you hit the gas hard. Probably too loud for the old folks but I like it. I'm still young at heart and I like to hear my engine. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Quicksilver and Superformance headers look good. I might have gone that route if I would have thought about it at the time. They do need to be coated before install though. I was going to get my stock ones coated at first and put them back on but I wanted to keep them original so as to reinstall back to stock if need be. Quote for coating was $250. The original heat shields needed to come off. I didn't like the smog fittings on top so I went with new headers. Can always sell parts for a 308 if they are no longer needed.
When Stebro puts things on ebay they like to add a best offer on their stuff. Just offer less and see if they go for it. Most of the time they come back with a counter offer. You can also talk to them on the phone and get good results. They are pretty good guys up in Canada. They won't give their stuff away but you can deal with them. Their parts are high quality and that does cost more. They did have some fit problems but worked them out now.
Stay away from the Stebro Guys. The are not very reliable when it comes to delivery, oh, but they will take your money. The special 10% discount is just so you will not be pissed off as much when you can't get your stuff. I eventually had to call the shipper because 'their' account was on hold and had my account take care of it. So, I removed all the stebro, swore never to buy or promote the product to anyone. Replaced the exhaust with a capristo and hyper flows. Anyone need a 348 stebro exhaust 500 takes it.
This kind of thing can happen with lots of diff parts and suppliers. Seems like everybody wants to take your money. Goes back to buyer beware. What happened to customer service. Do your homework before ordering anything. I had to wait a long time for my headers. I do like the end results though.
My Used Iron 308 headers had all ports welded shut,, then thay got "Burned out" prior to ceramic (CermaChrome) coating inside and out. His headers were new SS, thus, really easy to do both inside and out. See my cats are gone too....LOL Image Unavailable, Please Login
Do they take American Express? I have had excellent results with their platinum service when I needed to contest charges in the past. So well, in fact, that I do not mind taking a chance again. If I don't get my headers, I'll at least get a refund without too much hassle
It's vaguely possible that the HP figures could be obtained over a non-header setup but I don't believe it compared to a car (Ferrari) that already has a header system, even if the Stebro system is better designed for performance. The part that especially makes no sense is their increased torque with larger diameter tubes UNLESS other changes were made. This is a pretty common advertising technique (and one that, sadly, I participated in on occasion). A header (or whatever) company takes a stock SB Chey (say) motor off the street and does a dyno test. Let's say it shows 190HP. They do a tuneup, bump the timing a bit and bolt on the header - 210HP. What does the add say? "Bolt on our headers and add 20HP." What really happened? The tuneup and timing advance did 90% (maybe all) of the work. Headers are a good performance device and, IMHO, well worth the USUAL amount of money (not the "Ferrari Headers" kind of money). It is not unusual to get an honest 8-10 HP out of a set of headers alone over a stock US-type exhaust manifold but much more than that generally indicates there was some other exhaust problem. Also, headers are usually installed as part of a general exhaust change so along with the new headers you are installing new mufflers to replace the old which may be deteriorating and not flowing as they did when new. As I've said before, I would never believe any figures quoted by the folks who are trying to sell the product. There are too many ways to falsely indicate what's going on. "I put on these headers and added 20HP" sounds great but if they left out the part about..."well we had to try them on 12 different engines before we found one that got 20 HP because the right side oem manifold had it's heat riser valve frozen in the "closed" position," it's not lying per se but it sure isn't "truthin' " either. Oh yeah, and don't believe that when you see racer "ABC's" pit crew pouring a bottle of "XYZ" into the engine that what's actually pouring out of the bottle is really "XYZ." I could go on and on about bolt-on/pour-in performance products...sorry for what has essentially turned into a rant.
If the 308 had properly designed and installed OEM exhaust I would agree with you. There's been plenty of pictures on here though that show the stock exhaust tends to be poorly matched (to be generous!) to the actual exhaust ports. That's not to say the aftermarket is better, but there's certainly that chance.
You are right about not getting any real advantage by installing race headers. There needs to be more modifications to the engine. If you don't care about saving your old set off the car for originality and they are in good shape, strip off the heat shields and have them coated. Way cheaper than a set of new headers. To each his own. For me, I wanted to save the old ones the way they were. Just in case. Cheaper headers would have done the job just fine. If you can find a set of the more $$$ set for a good price, that works too. I'd never pay more than 2K. That's just me. I got good deal on a set of Stebros.
If a set of headers will help your car they are worth the price in the long run. I just installed a header on my Alfa. I cannot TELL you how much it woke up that little engine. The throttle response has really improved as well. I figured my 308 would benefit too.
A set of 300 dollar headers and decent mufflers/pipes with an exhaust crossover will almost certainly get you 10-15 HP over a stock SB Chevy and is worth the money. Thousands of dollars for a set of headers that, on a good day MIGHT get you 5-6 HP over another set of headers that are already on the car is a bit much for me to handle because it is meaningless in every way - you could never tell the difference. To paraphrase "The Color of Money," SHOW ME THE (objective) DYNO TESTS/TRACK TESTS! No, I don't buy any of the "feels quicker," "revs better," stuff without some numbers associated with it. A good "test" would have been to do a 3rd gear RPM timing test before/after the header. Using a stopwatch to time how many seconds it takes to go from say 3000 to 6000 (or any rpm you choose) before/after a change (same road/direction) gives you a number on what the change did that correlates quite well to a dyno. You need a passenger to help and you should make several runs. Of course you can't come up with any HP figure but if the numbers show the car is actually reaching 6k quicker, then you know you are not doing the "louder is faster thing or the "I just spent a lot of money so I KNOW its going faster." Obviously, having a G FORCE or similar device is even easier. I put a Fabspeed header on my 996 911 and found, with this test, that the car was slower than stock! Later, we dynoed and found that to be the case. However, at the dyno we then installed a programmable computer and, after a day of tweaking the computer and with the headers and Fabspeed mufflers we got 30 HP over the stock readings. But it cost 2.5k for the headers, 1k for the computer and 1k for the mufflers. Is 30 HP worth 4.5k? I'd say no since I could DOUBLE the HP in any US v8 for that.
The guys at my shop said I should be thinking about a new exhaust in the near future, and they said do NOT even think about Stebro, they have tried Stebro a couple of times and they just don't fit. Sounds like it's been a common problem with Stebro, but MAYBE it's been corrected on newer ones?
Here is what Stebro says about their header for a 308: Differences from stock are: 1. 40% lighter 2. High temperature coated for reduced engine compartment temperatures 3. 4 into 1 merge collector for increased flow 4. 100% SS 304 construction 5. QV fitment Aren't the stock ones 4 into 1 as well?
If you want a modern design, for a street car headers should be 4-2-1 with merge collectors done like the ones at http://www.burnsstainless.com/index.htm
