What do I need to do to drive this on the street???

PLENTY OF ROOM..........

 

In CA, cars 1975 and older no longer have to have emissions testing. The problem with the 96 and up Ferrari challenge cars is the lack of a 17 digit vin. No standard vin, no registration. You may get someone at the DMV to push it through, but once it gets to Sacramento it will get kicked back. Other states may very. IMHO, it would be easier to turn a standard car, into a STREET challenge car.


Darrell.

 

Show and display.

That is the catch all work around. No title, no problem you just need a bill of sale. The lack of a VIN however may very well be a problem. Show and display might help you with this.

 

No, Show and Display would definitely not work. This car is not on the list of cars approved for Show and Display.

Plus, even if it was, you would have to spend a considerable amount of time, effort and money to bring the emissions into compliance.

 

Not angry at all. Just trying to forcefully make a point before you put up good money. Besides, I track my own 430. BTW it's "you're" not "your" in this context.

Dave

 

You can put it on "the list":
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/import/ShowDisplay/showdisplay.pdf

And if you can afford a car like this you can afford the emissions mods.

 

Yes. I have heard of others who have had vehicles such as this registered and insured in the lands of our cousins to the north. That is providing that you have an address there to register it, although I am in no way advocating that. The vehicle importation laws are quite different there as I understand it.

 

Chicane,
you cannot just put it on the list. There is very specific criteria the car has to meet. A challege car would not qualify under any of the three main areas (historically significant, very unique, technologically significant).

As for emissions, it's not a matter of affordability. Some cars can, some can't. I suppose you can bring it into compliance by choking the engine completely, but that would change the whole nature of the car. It probably wouldn't even run. This is all a moot discussion anyways, it would never get put on the Show and Display list.

As for registering it in Canada, I don't know the particulars or whether it is even possible (anything's possible, though!). But keeping a car with Canadian plates in US state for any length of time would probably attract attention. Especially a car like this.

Modena1_2003, would you really be ok with driving around in a car with the transmission whine from straight-cut gears? What would you do, put on noise-canceling headphones like the McLaren F1LM/GTR guys do?

 

Show and Display status approval allows you to drive your car 2,500 miles per year on public roads. Ostensibly to take your car to shows and back. The mileage is enforced, but the destination is not. Again, a Ferrari Challenge car would definitely not qualify under any of the Show and Display criteria.

 

Did you even read the link? You PETITION to have it put on the list. And how do you know it couldn't make it on the list?

 

And again you do not know that.

You see, Show and Display is essentially a loophole. A loophole for wealthy guys (like Bill Gates who was the guy who helped get this thru), who if they have the money and the means can get just about ANY car thru as long as they can show the government that this car is of such unique design that it merits being brought into the country unmolested. This is not about spending money on emissions controls, it's about a guy bringing in a European Super-car so he can enjoy it AS IS. The rules are vague for Show and Display:

1.Whether a vehicle of the same make, model, and model year was manufactured and certified for sale in the United States.
2.Whether a vehicle of the same make, model, and model year has been determined eligible for importation pursuant to 49 CFR Part 593.
3.Whether the vehicle is currently in production.
4.Whether more than 500 of the vehicles were produced.
5.Whether the vehicle is a kit car, replica, or special construction vehicle.

If the answer is no to these you can proceed with a S/D exemption. I think the Challenge car could meet these requirements.

You essentially have to convince the government that it is unique. A good lawyer can get that done. "The list" is so that if one guy has petitioned the government for a particular vehicle another guy coming along doesn't repetition the government. "The List" is NOT made up by the government to tell people which cars can and cannot come into the country. NHTSA has a real list of cars that are approved for importation but that is different than Show and display.

 

A 95 F355 challenge would be no trouble at all to pass the emissions here. Since it was the last year for OBDI, all you would have to do is tune it and slap on some cats, done deal. As for titling it, I think you might be able to go the kit car rout. I did a lot of research on this (I owned a FFR GTM car) and found many interesting methods of titling a car. You should get on their website and do a search. In the mighty state of Texas there are different conditions as far as emissions testing and as long as you live in a county that doesn't require strict testing, your ok.

 

Yes, I read it but maybe you can quote the specific paragraphs you think I should read?

Um, not quite. It's not a loophole and it's not designed just for the rich. Yes, Bill Gates and that BET guy were the original petitioners, but anyone can use it now, although for most cars you would need significant funds to go through the emissions certification process once the car is approved. Show and Display status is something designed to end loopholes. In fact, cars brought in quasi legally before Show and Display are being required to undergo a formal Show and Display application so that they can be grandfathered in and made "legal". A loophole is something that is not specifically addressed by a law. This is a very specific set of legal importation guidelines for rare cars that do not meet FMVSS but would be able to meet emissions laws. When you get something approved for Show and Display, you are not exploiting a loophole. You are correct in stating that cars approved for Show and Display do not have be modified to meet FMVSS. But they do have to meet emissions standards...which can be a nightmare.

They seem pretty specific to me--and more importantly, I know they are applied very stringently.

With you so far.

As you said to me, you don't know this to be fact. And it really doesn't matter what you or I think, does it? By all means, fill out an application or have a lawyer fill it out if you think that will hold more water.

OK so far.

Lol, ok, if you insist. After the OJ trial, yes, I believe anything is possible, but chances are that the written rules will be followed. Not some creative interpretation of them.

I am aware of the petitioning process and the subsequent publication in the federal register to see if anyone objects. Think Ferrari NA would let it slide...? I am also aware that once a car has been approved, subsequent importers don't need to repetition for the show and display status. Yes, a lawyer can fill out your show and display petition if it makes you feel better, but if you look at the forms, they are dead simple and don't require legal arguments. I have the forms in my hand as I type this. Once you submit the petition, it is voted upon by a committee within the NHTSA. IIRC there are only five people on the committee and the attorney (forget his name) has veto power, again, IIRC. They know cars and they know the rules and they apply them fairly stringently. I used to speak to Dick Merritt quite frequently (he has retired now) that's why I know how the process really works. Looking at the criteria posted above, the answers to 3 and 4 would be yes and the Ferrari Challenge would not even get the approval to be put on the federal register to see if anyone objects. End of story.

At the end of the day, you don't have to take my word for it. Go ahead and fill out the application (or have a lawyer do it if you think that will lend it more credence) and see what happens. Don't hold your breath, though.

I am not shouting no, no, no to your yes, yes, yes. Rather, I am saying it is very unlikely and I think you are saying it's very likely. I am happy to leave it at that...after all, it's the NHTSA that decides first and looks at any objections after posting in the Federal Register--and it would be great if they approved as many cool cars as possible. I am just not as optimistic as you about this, and my opinion is based on some detailed knowledge. There are also some downsides to filling out an application for a car that is already in the country, but it is not worth getting into that.

 

Has anyone here even driven a 360 Challenge? Nobody has mentioned of how miserable a street car it would be.

The combination of the engine tune, light flywheel and F1 clutch engagement are great for a racecar, but can you imagine driving it in stop and go traffic or around city streets of San Franciso with its stop on hills. You would fry the clutch in a minute. With each generation of Challenge car: 348/355/360/430 the cars are less streetable and more racecar like.

 

Yup, the Challenge Stradae version exists for this very reason.

 

Do what I do. Put FARM USE tages on it. Do not forget the red triangle on the back as well.

 

You need to find a a scrap 360 that can be had cheap.....with a title. Then you use the parts from the challange to repair it....it would be very wrong to simply move the vin tag. Get some lights, sell off whatever is left over (like the scrap car without it's vin and title) and you're all set. Depending on the state and the tilte you may need to get a repair inspection. If you are luckly enough to find one with a clean title you just go straight to the dvm.

I don't know how else you would do it.....

 

Oh, here is another sure fire way to street it, become a citizen of a foreign country then get a job in one of their embassies or consulates here in the U.S.

You are then entitled to bring in a vehicle (with diplomatic tags),and you are not required to register, inspect, or emissions certify this vehicle.

 

Just get a set of dealer plates. I have seen many track only cars: early Lotus Elise, 340R being driven around on dealer plates.

 

That might be the cheapest/easiest. It can't be very hard to "open" a dealership and get a dealer plate of your very own.

 

Insurance might be problematic.

 

It depends some states require you to have a "dealership" either a lot or a building to house the business

 

Not at all. Getting a wholesaler's license in MD only requires an office. Never heard anyone complain that insurance was tough. My standard shop insurance covers my transporter tags. Only restrictions are they must be customer's cars and driven by an employee. There must be an ID number of some sort on these cars so a cop won't think it's stolen.
Any officers of the law want to chime in?
Tom

 

As I said, it varies from state to state, but in NJ and several others I've looked at, if you register for historic plates, no inspection is required, period. NJ also has a "collector car" designation that can cover any car, regardless of age. Use is limited to 3000 miles per year. The only thing that DMV checks is that the odometer is working. I have my 308 registered as a collector car. No emissions or any other testing/inspection. But, the car must have a valid VIN and title to register it to begin with.

Steve