308 power window fiasco

Guys, I need some help with my window project.( 84 308 GTB QV.) First let me say that I have read every thread I could find on the slow window fix for 308's, so heres the deal, started with the pass. side door as it would only move about an inch (figured it was surely the grease turned to clay) after getting it apart it looked great, so someone has had it apart at least once before I owned it. Checked the motor while it was out by jumping it on the bench with the battery charger and it works fine,so here's my problem- I'm not sure if the last person who had it apart wraped the cables back on the spool properly because it hasn't worked from day one of my ownership! I've read on a prior post that I want to have 5 wraps on the spool (2 1/2 each way) so, I get the cables laying in the spool nice and even but when I try to slide it back into place and bolt it up I end up with slack in the cables and they end up wraped over each other, The two attempts that I did manage to get things back into place the window would only travel about 3 inches before binding and that is with power being supplied directly to the window motor via the battery charger. What the hell am I doing wrong here? there has to be some trick to getting the tension set properly. I've been at this 5 hours now and I'm starting to get some small kinks in the cable and I'm worried if I keep screwing around without some intervention I'm going to scratch or possibly break the side glass,or rollers, or cable, or all of the above! Any help is greatly appreciated!

 

Are you sure you have the cables routed correctly and the spring tensioner on correctly? If not, it may be worth taking apart the driver's side door trim and observe the cable routing. Then mimic it on the passenger side. I had a similar problem with my Mondial and I had to check the other door to ensure that my cable routing was correct (it wasn't.)

 

I don't know anything about the rollers or the cable. I know that you should check the guides that window slides in. I took my window apart and it worked fine and then I put it back together and it went back to the old slow-mo action. I haven't had the heart to take it apart again, but it works ok. It's just slow.

Bob Wassam

 

Guys Hello! The cables I'm sure are wraped the right direction, the way they hook into the spool kind of confirms that,but I didn't see any spring tensioner. (GREAT!) The Problem with looking at the other window is it doesn't operate much better than the pass. side, and because I will have to totally pull the unit out to see anything does not sound like the greatest plan until I understand how to replace them back in the doors less the cables wraping over one another I'm going to have the same senaro! The window moves in the channel with ease and all the rollers work fine. When I first took it apart I just removed the motor and the three screws holding the gear drive together and checked it out, I didn't change any adjustments or wraps of cable, thats what makes me think it wasn't right to begin with. when I put it back together and added power the cable that runs closest to the door latch becomes extremely tight and I cant seem to get slack in the cable.

 

308Milano aka Kim, I'm very sorry to hear about your problems. Please keep us informed how it goes.

I recently (2 months ago?) had the window on my passenger side stop about 1 inch from the top ....... and your issues are exactly why I have yet to tackle this problem.

I'm anxiously awaiting your results, hoping its a positive outcome.

You're not taking pictures are you? If so, please post or email them to me.

BTW my car is an 84 QV GTS.

James in Denver

 

Which way is the window traveling when the cable nearest the door latch gets tight? If I remember correctly, the cable closest to the door hinges pulled the window up, while the cable nearest the door latch pulled the window down. Also, I assume you wound the cable on the spool all in the same direction. A trick I used was to use masking tape to hold the 2 ends coming off the spool together so that the cable remained tight on the spool. After I routed the cable to all but the last pulley, I pulled the cables and the tape riped, allowing me to get the final pulley wrapped and the the tension correct. Tension is controlled by the pulley in the middle of the door. I then reached into the door and removed all the pieces of tape. Caused a little bleeding, but it worked.

 

James Hello! I'm sure I'll get it figured out, I'm just tired of dealing with it tonight.Ha! I'll pick it up tomorrow after a nights rest and a few cups of coffee! After taking the assembly out quite a few times I can tell you its not very complacated, the challange seems to be keeping the wraps on the spool in place as you slip it back into place. I'm sure there's a very simple way of doing this that I'm missing. I'll keep you informed so when you do yours it will be a cake walk! Kim

 

Paul, Thanks for the post! Your right, the cable nearest the door latch got tight as I tried to lower the window.But the way the cable was wound was 2 1/2 in one direction and 2 1/2 in the opposite direction, total of 5 wraps, so if it winds up in one direction half the spool tightens and the other half releases pressure, This isnt correct? Thats how it was when I took it apart. The idea of both cables wound in the same direction would sure be easier to keep in place. Also is my car (qv) suppose to have a spring tensioner? because it doesn't. Thanks! Kim

 

Here's a diagram that BigTex posted back in Nov 2006 and a URL to the thread. I hope this helps...

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=127868&highlight=window+cable
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Best trick is to install the motor cable system WITHOUT attaching it to the window and leaving a bit of slack in the cable but not enough slack that the cable may come off the pulleys. Put a short narrow piece of 'monitoring' masking tape on the cable in a spot where the cable will stay in your sight, usually rearward works best. Little by little, run the motor up and down to learn where the cable/spool limits are, by observing the monitoring tape.

When doing this watch that tape closely and come to release the up/down switch just before reaching the systems end of travel. This will allow the cable to settle nicely on the spool without laying over itself.

If you have a flashlight and a tiny articulated mirror or dental mirror, look at the cable spool to assure the cable lays neatly on the spool with it's 5 turns tamed. If you haven't yet obtained such a mirror, raid your wife's handbag.

When you are confident that you are indeed in control of the situation and only then, bring the window into the situation by cinching the pinch cable nuts attaching the window to the cable. Remove remaining slack and you should be home. (return any purloined mirror)

 

Bob King Goodmorning and thanks for the diagram! I instantly see that one of the cables exits the spool at the wrong angle, whoever worked on the car didn't do me any favors. ha! ha! Can anyone tell me if I have the cables wound correctly? (2 1/2 one way and 2 1/2 the other) or do both cables wrap in the same direction. Paul Thanks for your help also! I'll disconnect the window from the cable this morning! Just so I have this correct, if I wedge the window in the closed position with cables disconnected from it, assemble the unit in the door, careful of the wraps, then watch the masking tape marker for limits of travel, all thats left is to tighten the nuts that hold the cable against the glass? No more removing then reassembling the unit 400 times trying to get the tension and limits of travel correct? THIS MAY HAVE BEEN THE BEST CHRISTMAS PRESENT EVER!!! Can't Thank you guys enough! Merry Christmas!

 

Guys, after reviewing the window diagram there's no way the cables can both spool up in the same direction is there? I'm kind of afraid that after so many tries at assembly and the cables overlaping and slightly kinking in spots that I won't be able to get them to lay in there smoothly, guess I'll find out soon!

 

In addition to the hard grease, incorrect cable tension, and voltage drop problems, the problem you're having in just the one spot could be:

1. Been discussed in other threads I'm sure . .. cable gets frayed and binds up as it wraps around the spool at the position it's going tight

2. Rust behind the rubber in the front track/wing window area creates a bubble that makes the window tight in one spot.

Somone needs to dyno the motor assemblies and come up with acceptable tq vs. speed vs. voltage curves . .. . could start a service just doing this

edit: that diagram is priceless

 

Glad the diagram helped, but I can't take credit. Bubba (aka "BigTex") made the drawing and did a write-up on the URL I provided above. That diagram has helped LOTS of us!

As for the cables - the cables should not spool up in the same direction. The cables should wrap in opposite directions so that, as it turns one direction, it feeds out cable, and reels in the other end. But both cable ends need to exit in the same location (between the two posts of the mounting plate) as shown in BigTex's diagram.

Good luck!

 

One other problem to look out for is a problem with one of the small white plastic pulleys such as:

- Pulley binding. May just need lubing. If not, then replace.
- Groove in pulley grabbing the cable
- Cable has worn a flat spot on the pulley, so pulley doesn't rotate under tension.

BTW, you can get nice ball bearing plastic pulleys from the screen door dept of most HW stores. They're replacements for the pulleys that keep the screen door sliding on tracks.

TIP: Move the window all the way up. Use masking tape to keep it in the track & from slipping down. Loosen the cable clamps on the bottom of the window. Now you can focus on getting the cable setup & tensioned. (This is a paraphrase of what Paul_308 is suggesting).

If the cablel is really badly snarling, bite the bullet & replace it. Most HW stores (& McMaster-Carr) carry 1/16" SS aircraft cable. New cable is nice & limp, easy to work with.

As for turns on the spool, try starting with all the turns (IIRC: 5) on one end of the cable, none, or at most a partial turn on the other end. Lots easier to keep one end from snarling than to try to have turns on both ends. Then when it's strung & partially tensioned, fine tune from there.

 

I found my old notes and you are correct, the 2 ends of the cable are attached to the spool, then each end is wound onto the spool in opposite directions. The end result is as the spool rotates, one side of the cable unwraps while the other side wraps around the spool.

 

Guys, I've found the problem! The problem is I'm not a window mechanic! Serious though, I've been at this 6 hours today, that makes 11 hours total so far on one window, thats really sad!! -Heres whats going on- the rollers are in great shape, there is zero rust inside the doors and their is no fraying of the cables, but what is happening is the gear assembly is binding inside itself. I have had this thing apart at least 18 times and do not know why. I can assemble it and where the motor connects it turns very freely until I tighten the 3 screws that hold it together and then you can hardly turn it by hand. I have had it together twice and the screws tightened where it didn't bind but as soon as I put it back into the door and put power to the unit it binds up again, it is such a simple unit but its kicking my ass!!! I have cleaned it, tried it after removing the two spring washers, everything! Even asked one of my yellow labs for advice. I've got the whole unit including the cables out on the bench and I've removed/replaced it so many times I can do it in my sleep (just can't make it operate properly) I'm sure the Italians thought this assembly up just to screw with me! Verell, thanks also, I'll give your suggestion a try on winding just one cable. Kim

 

Well I'm almost embarrassed to report this, remember my first post where I said that the previous owner had someone work on this window prior to my ownership and that the grease in the gear assembly had been changed and looked great, well after tearing everything apart and cleaning every inch of new grease out of the thing I find that they didn't remove all the old grease, they just slapped new over the old in some places, it wasn't the screws tightening things down to much, it was the gears running into that damn old grease in some areas causing the travel to stop. so, we all know the saying about what happens when we "assume" Hopefully I can get this door buttoned back up this afternoon. Just once I would like to learn a lesson about ferrari the easy way!

 

You can now say you've got door maintenance experience.

EXPERIENCE: What you get when things don't turn out the way you expected...

 

LOL! I agree with Verell... experience is EVERYTHING! I found the same thing in my old '82 GTSi, hence why I knew not to assume anything on my current '83 Mondial. I took a pick and cleaned every part of the window motor assembly, scrubbed it, degreased it and re-inspected it all for proper operation before applying new grease. The only thing I didn't do (silly me!) was make a diagram of the window cable routing - hence why I knew about BigTex's diagram and to pull of the opposite door's interior trim to check for assembly!