Well guys didn't take long for the infamous CEL light to brighten my dash! No comments please! Received the 355 late December just before 1 of our many 12" snow storms. Drove 1/4 mile to my house after delivery. Warm day a couple of weeks later, roads clear of salt by a rain storm, I drove the 355 1/2 hour to warm up. Scheduled the state inspection at my friends garage. On the state machine the car passed with flying colors. No codes, no pending codes, no issues noted. Week later we met at Starbucks. CEL light went on as I was driving down. No performance difference noted. Filled with gas. Drove about 20 miles total. Pulled codes with my newly acquired Innova OBDII code reader. Got the infamous P0422 generic code indicating Bank 1 Main Catalyst below threshold if I recall correctly. Searched the old Ferrarichat archives and found interesting information, most notably from Brian Crall. Since I am stuck in the winter wonderland I am looking to see if there are any connections or functions I can check prior to bringing the Ferrari to a specialist with an SD2 diagnostic machine. Any and all with more OBDII knowledge than I(that is just about everyone) advice welcome. Model is a 1997 spider 23k miles.
Could be as simple as a failed cat. I know both of mine were replaced under warranty at around that mileage (that was the federal 8 year/80k miles warranty).
Thanks f355spider. Not much I can do at this time due to the weather! May clean the O2 sensors, check the exhaust ECU's etc. My understanding is the car has to cycle through multiple times after the code is cleared before it will reappear. Will not be able to drive with any frequency until spring! May erase the code, clean all electrical connections, the O2 sensors etc and see if the CEL comes back on once I can drive the car. If it does, bring to a Ferrari shop with SD2 capability. Diagnose an accurate cause and remedy. Sound like a reasonable plan?
Takes at least two cycles of about 30 minutes in length from what I read in the workshop manual. Yeah, you can clean and such, but at your miles, it very likely is a bad cat. SD2 would tell you very quickly what the issue is. I had a CEL about a year and a half ago, and had the dealer check on the SD2 and print out the results for me. It was a bad right side cat and broken heater on the pre-cat O2 sensor. I bought a pair of lightly used cats from another 355 owner and replaced the right side one, along with a new O2 sensor. The old cat actually had the core broken loose from the housing and rattling around inside. When that happens the exhaust is no longer flowing through it, but going around it, causing the cat efficiency to drop and trip the light. The cats are not well constructed and seem to only last 18k to 25K miles. Failures come from the cores coming loose, and also from improperly timed cams causing a richness that kills them too. Two options, go with metal cats like Hyperflows or have your original cat recored at http://www.millercat.com/ for about $600 each
That should throw a specific code for a bad pre or post O2 sensor. It can even be as specific as a bad heater, as it did in my case. That meant the O2 sensor was not working as quickly upon start up, but worked fine once at operating temperature.
Right. Good points. I was just thinking that an old O2 sensor can become coated with exhaust soot and then fail to report accurate amounts of O2, even though the old sensor is still electronically functional. That's why cleaning or replacing the rear O2 sensor has so little downside. Still, best to keep in mind that he could have a failing Cat.
I'm hardly an expert, but read from several techs here that the rears either work or do not work...and are only monitoring that the pre-cat O2 and cat are doing their job. The pre-cat O2's are most important, and at the age of this car, 1997 with 23k miles, I see no reason not to just go ahead and replace them all. By replacing them now, you save yourself the hassles and CE lights as they individually fail over the next few years. I think they are only $230 each from Ricambi, or you can buy the generic four wire Bosch and do a little splicing for $75 ea. The "universal" Bosch come with a huge and ugly splicing block, but I instead, individually soldered each of the four wires, then slid a piece of heat shrink tubing over each splice, then one large, long piece of black heatshrink tubing to make it look stock. You would be hard pressed to tell it is not original. I agree it may still be the cat, but replacing all the O2 sensors at this age and miles can be considered a little preventive maintanence.
Update for all interested and a couple of questions. Decided to clean the O2 sensors and connections as suggested. Left side went well. Sensors came out easily, clean as was the thermal couple. Right side was another story. Thermal couple came out easily. Rear O2 sensor would turn with a significant amount of force. Decided to loosen/ tighten repeated to remove unit. Backed out about 2~3 threads then spun free. Bad news. Either the O2 thread is stripped or the cat port thread. As it turns out not a factor! Removed bumper etc to remove muffler then cat for repair. Muffler out, left cat looks fine inside. I can see a flat screen across the ID. Right side not so good. The screen is blown out against the thermal couple and O2 sensor. There is nothing else inside the cat body. Obviously a classic 355 blown cat. Now my questions. Car checked out fine when PPId. Drove fine with no cel prior to passing MA inspection(1 hour total). MA inspection indicated no issue. CEL went on during the subsequent 1 hour drive. Since a 97 355 is OBDII compliant, why didnt the issue appear immediately? My understanding of the system is the problem should be detected at the point of failure. Is my understanding correct? Considering Hyperflows from Ricambi. My concern is several 355 owners have noted CEL problems after installing hyperflows. If the Hyperflow cat is CA/ 50 state compliant and functioning to spec why would the system detect a problem? Opinions have always been overwhelmingly favorable. Thanks again.
Go with the Hyperflows. I got mine from Dan at Ricambi and they are great. With my aftermarket exhaust and the Hyperflows the sound is great. No CEL here. I have heard of people with CEL's on with Hyperflows but they must have some other issues I believe. They are definately better than the stock heavy OEM's.
Unless they looked specifically for the engine not ready code, then the codes could have been cleared prior to the delivery of the car (and prior to the PPI) and didn't show up for several drive cycles. I had hyperflows too; I'd not pay money for anything else. They are fantastic.
How long did you have the car between purchase and emission check? It takes at least two 30 minute drive cycles with the problem to trip the CE light according to the WSM. Might actually be three according to other sources.
Possible the light was reset but not sure. Now that I have the cats out and inspected I observed the following. The left cat looks fine. Ceramic matrix is tight within the housing and looks clean with no erosion noted. The right cat on the other hand still has some of the ceramic matrix within the housing. What I thought was a distorted protective screen is the matrix shaped to match the rear of the cat housing. Once the ceramic loosened within the housing it was pushed to the rear. Vibration caused it to shape itself to the housing. It most likely continued to partially function as it sealed itself against the rear housing section. The O2 sensor was molded by erosion into the ceramic so it would read the exhaust gas passing through the matrix, not the gas escaping around the ceramic. If it shifted forward, the CEL would trip indicating underperforming cat. My theory and opinion, worth nothing of course.
Choice is yours. Hyperflow might be the longterm fix. The alternative it is to have the right side recored. My thought is that Ansa did not properly secure the cores originally, and a properly recored cat should last a long time, longer than the original ones anyway. Check the threads on Hyperflows if you have concerns. The expert techs say that they cannot cause a CEL, that the CEL is from something going on upstream.
What year is your car. I had my cats replaced under the 8/80 federal warranty and have a new (less than 500 miles) set. PM me if ineterested. It will fit a OBII 355 (ie, front and rear o2 sensors).
possibly ck engine light was cleared,for a catalytic converter code sometimes it takes 50 and sometimes more miles for the ck engine light to return.when i had my 98 355 my cats went out also.
Can you advise what the Universal Bosch part number is? I searched for the Bosch number listed on the Ferrari O2 sensor with little or no luck. I had to cut the rear O2 sensor out of the bad cat! Thank you, John.
Sorry I did not save the Bosch part number. But all I did was call a 800 number to Bosch and spoke with one of their tech support people and he told me any four wire Bosch o2 sensor with the correct threading will work. I gave him the Bosch oem part number to cross reference with and he gave me the correct "universal" part number. BTW, the part numbers in the Bosch on line look up for a 96 to 99 355 are wrong! They list the 95 parts for all years! These are the correct numbers Pre cat #13819 Post cat #13820 Call Bosch for the cross reference. 1-888-715-3616 I believe the only difference between the pre and post cat sensors is the length of the cables.
