360 value going down the toilet???

With all due respect it is the samething, you either raise your price or you go out of business..when you buy your next 10 it will no longer be at $800 (your $300 profit is gone now tied up in product), it will be $1,200 ($400 more) in your example..so you must raise your price to have the same margin of profit..now if you plan on using your profit to cover the spred on the first order to cover the second it would be your $300 profit plus $100 more of your capital to buy the next 10!... $300 of your profit is gone until the next this order of 10 has sold plus $100 net LOL (I hope this makes since )...So your first 10 have to raise in price somewhere or you do not replace the 10 products for sale, in the example you used if your product went up in wholesale cost from $800 to $1,200 then you reatil price will be $1,600 or you have to stop selling that product sell it at a loss, or price it of the market ...really we said the samthing! almost tongue twister..lol..I hope made since..lol, I can expalin so much better over the phone ..but maybe the idea is in there somewahere..lol

Most if not floor plan companies start curtailments at 45 days to 90 days...so after 90 days we dealers own that car and have no on-going flooring cost..yes the op expense suffers until the car is sold but after 90 days there is normally no note left for floor plan...

 

Bought my US, '00 coupe, F1, Giallo, with CG, piping, red calipers, car cover, all records 9k miles November of 05 for $125k. It's worth about 100-105 today with 25k miles. 20% depreciation in 2 years and 16k miles is not "going down the toilet". Buy yourself an Aston, Benz, Porsche or BMW and see what real depreciation is.

 

I'd agree with the result of this auction. 1999 F1 US car, most desirable resale colors, options, fully maintained, super low miles for the year and sold for $103k. To me that means all lesser (meaning most) early modenas are sub-$100k cars. Just an observation.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=006&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=160201915121&rd=1

 

I sold in April of 2007 a MY00 yellow, sheilds, grill, exhaust, CF seats, F1 full service, all records super clean car with 22k miles..for $119k

 

Good to know!

 

I studied the market for about 6 months, then spent a few months actively looking to find my '00 6 spd coupe until November, and have been pretty actively looking to help my two friends get their coupes up until last week. These are my observations:
--spider prices have come down a good bit, pretty close to the coupe; there are a lot out there for sale
--coupes really haven't changed much, if at all. All of the good priced coupes I looked at had high miles, were a euro, or were an off color. I think the 328/348 and even the settled 355 prices have bolstered the 360 coupe given the 355 maint. costs, and the 360 being a lot more car.
--6 spds are a lot harder to find, and carry a premium over the F1; Just b/c there are more F1's out there.


My friend had a tough time selling (or atleast getting the money he thought was fair) with his spider, but found people didn't want to budge much on their coupes He ended up finding a nice euro coupe, so he ended up taking about the correct price delta out, going from spider to coupe, but had to get a euro to do it. I found the same thing with the coupes. Either way, the 360 has surpassed my expectations, and is just a joy to drive.

David

 

My information is spiders are dropping while coupes are stable (new twist). Best

 

As I said if anyone would like a fax with all the price changes and retail, wholesale, cars that have been sold..evrything..I have it! It is my business to track these numbers...

 

Just sayin........

 

I concur 100%.

My rationale is because they made LOTS of them, and, combined with the top problems they all have, guys are going to unload those.

I want one once they break the $100k mark, which is looking sooner than I had originally expected.

I may change to a coupe if the spiders $$$ bottom falls out, because the coupe will be a better investment

 

Based on current wholesale numbers this will never happen!! Futher more if you read the rest of the post here with wholesale prices going up over the last month in THE WHOLESALE, in the next 15-20 days expect to see the reatil prices up as well...or the the market will just stalemate...and cars will sit! ( i do want to note that I have recived sevral PM's from people that have seen just what I am talking about, they call the dealers on cars they think are right priced..and find out the cars have been sold, or have issues, even the guys watching the MMR are saying the samething)

Now oince again..I will be more then happy to fax the database of the 360's for sale, there asking price, and est. sales price to anyone!

 

so then what is a real number I should pay for a 2003 360 spider F1 with the right equipment?

 

Well, it's alot more then just the "right" options and equipment...it is the pedigree of the car itself!! Many cars will have the same options and colors but been kept and driven very diffrent...a 22k mile car with all of it service history with no gaps in service (Gaps in service tells the story itself), with options and orginal manuals, tools, and covers..ect ect..(in other words a good clean no story car) is worth more then a 10k mile car with no or missing gaps in service , options and missing parts and minor or major cosmtic issues...The thing is since these car are not massed produced, carry expensive serivce and are perssion built, just because the last service is done, doese not tell the whole story of the car!

Thats what is happening now to some degree...(but like I said there is not as many cars on the market as it looks) The first purchase many guys made durning the real estate boom was either a 360 or Gallardo...alot of these buyers did not keep up with service, or in maintaining the car...we seeing alot of those cars hitting the lots, with absoulty no service, and many dealers not knowing themselve what the car has been done or needs...So what looks like a good deal may cost you in nickel and dimming upwards of $10k-$15k or higher....

So it is deeper then just right options and color it is the pedigree and history that counts alot more...at least to me!!!

 

Shades of the usual FChat 'values' thread where the wannabe owners say prices are tanking and owners say prices are firm.

As someone who doesn't ever plan to buy a 360 and doesn't own one now: I think we're seeing normal depreciation and prices will probably fall more just due to the ample supply combined with falling demand as the 360 joins the 355 as 'nice modern-ish used Ferraris'.

I was very surprised to read the assertion that 360 Spider prices are increasing, and frankly I doubt it. Jim Lyons has 38 360s listed as available or recently sold, versus 7 355s, 4 348s, 2 308s and 1 328. Marshall Goldman has 7 360s sitting on the floor.

I would say if you're a buyer, the serious depreciation is probably over, but you've likely got 20-30 years before these cars appreciate, if they ever do. At this point, if you really want a 360, I might wait for either the F430 successor or "Dino" to come out to wring the final bit of new-car premium out of the 360, then buy one of the 18,000 cars in whatever color/spec you want.

The only interesting aspect of this, from my perspective, is to see if the paddle-shift cars fare as well over the years as the manual cars. That's uncharted territory.

 

when is this new ferrari " dino" coming out.. any photos?

 

The tracking that is done by the wholesale network of there data is up 17%...I was just pointing out that the prices on the wholesale asking price is up 17%...thats what the wholesales network shows from there data...everyone may doubt but, there blog, there network says the asking price on the wholesale is up! Now they might not be selling at 17% higher..dealers might not be willing to pay 17% higher, but the dealer will not sell the car wholesale for 17% less...so the market just sits...

Once again yes you do and yes you are! See you made up in the diffrence in $3.10..but no matter... Ok..you paid $1.00 for your product to sell, right...you retail that product for MSRP of $2.00..overnight the because of some world crisis, your product production cost go up, and now they are charging $2.00 for the product...ok if you want to keep selling that product, you would have to raise your product to $3.00 to make the same $1.00 right? Now on the product that you already have you would break even and not turn a profit, if of course you plan to keep selling that product....Greed plays no part of it..by adding the $.10 you are spreading out the loss over the new products..we are talking the samething..just one side from the other..mine just returns to profit off the bat..that what the gas stations are doing and thats inventory profit spread...But I do know what you are doing..the first product goes into the books as a $1.00 profit, your COGS go up overnight, so you shift the price and second order of product shows a $1.00 profit...But it is the samething...

Look at it like this.. I buy a car for $129k the car sits and over time the market rises and falls...but then stables..and price go up a few $$$ soooo...I sell the car for $135k, but know it cost me $135k to buy the next car to replace the first one, where did my profit on the first one go? See if the price of the wholesale went up overnight my avc, has to raise as well, or I can not replace the car I just sold...futhermore..if I sold the car for a loss, lets say $125k I have to pack $4,000 into my next cars I buy...if I have 4 or more I can reduce that loss...by doing like you decribed ($.10) by adding alittle of the loss to each car...To add to that..In the example I gave with a $6,000 profit..when the price went up on the wholesale...and I price my first car at $140k retail does not mean I just made an extra $5,000..no..no..I made the same..when i sell the next car I will make the same..and so on and so on...no greed at all the margin stays the same you made no more on the first products, you just kept your profit......WHEW!! LOL

 

I have to agree about 6sp coupes being stiff on price/higher demand (now, I must say I am biased..). It seems more enthusiasts want a 6 sp coupe that I have talked to, for the "purest" performance experience in a 360. I bought a 6 speed Euro model, and appreciated the price savings, lower weight and more power! Win-win, if its a sorted car. I love rowing the gears, listening to the snick-snick of the gate, and controlling the downshifts via heal-toe. In a 430, I would opt for F1 as its a great system. But I think the way to go in a 360 is definitely 6sp as the F1 system was still in its teething fase at this point (save for CS), and this may lead to higher demand for 6sp Coupes due to them being more rare.

I wouldnt say prices are in the toilet, but there is probably a wider range of pricing due to desparate sellers and poor condition cars, or both.

 

Chris excellent post, agree 100%.

 

So you charge less than the market price for things because you are not greedy? If your grandmother left you a car and you did not want it you would sell it for ten percent of its value because that is the markup you get? Cost = $0, profit = 10%, so the price should equal 10% of fair market value so you get your profit. What do you sell, I want to buy one. Most houses on the market at any time had cost the seller much less than their selling price. I guess all home owners are greedy, except the one who will sell you a Cafe De Artists 2 BR co-op for $75,000 because, that is ten persent more than she paid for it.

 

Correct. I base our sales price on an item solely based on our cost, not MSRP or current market value, even on "HOT, LIMITED" type items. Some people say I leave money on the table, which is true, but the policy has allowed us to make a very fair profit while also giving us a loyal customer base who basically advertise for us via word of mouth with little advertising costs on our end (allowing us to work off slimmer margins without that advertising expense). Again, some people say it's a flawed way to do business, but the market I am in is suffering at the moment from what our manufacturing and distributor reps all tell us, and they are amazed that we continue to put in the orders as usual. The upshot of this is that since the industry is suffering, our continued buying has given us leverage with those same reps who allow us to buy at deeper discounts, which we proceed to pass along directly to customers, and the cycle continues, with more referrals expanding our customer base, who buy more and give us more buying power, which increases our leverage, which lowers the price, etc. etc. When we reach the bottom, discount-wise, that's fine, as it still positions us as a price leader within the market.

 

Please confine your honest posts to the Honest Posts subforum. Thx.

 

OK, it's still the samething..see you can offer your product at any retail price you want..in your example you said you paid $1.00 and retailed for $2.00...in my example you had to spend your $1.00 profit to buy the next order of product for your stock when your price went up to $2.00. The first product is a net profit of zero when you order more of that product...so you increased in your example the retail price to $3.10...in order to cover the price increase you have to sell the 10 items, to make $1.00 for every 10 the first order lost.....you make $1.00 instead of $10...remeber I am talking about how what you paid for a product fits in...I can sell the product for $.10 over cost if I want to, but if I was previously made a $1.00 profit I am losing $.90 on everysale over last month lets say...Now your reps love you because you have to double your order with them!! Thankfully major swings do not effect most industeries like that! Real quick if you end up selling the product at a loss, lets say..like in my car example...I lost $4,000 from what I paid and what I sold for...and I use a floor plan..now inorder for you the buyer to get a free and clear title I must come up with the $4,000 loss out of my opp expense to the floor company...I have to make that up by increaseing the AVC price of the next 4 cars by $1,000 persay..to make that up..or I have loss at the end of the year that snowballs, if the wholesale price to increased on the next car...If no icrease hopefully I made enough profit at the end of the year to cover that $4,000 loss or it just stays on the books, and maybe I can not pay payroll..or smothing..

 

In europe I have seen prices go up a few grand. A few months ago I saw some 04 modena's for 100k euro, now i see them at 104k. Looks pretty stable to me in Europe.