Ferrari vs. Lotus-- assistance please

Please understand that I am both a current Lotus owner and a past Ferrari owner (275GTB/4 and a few others), so this is purely intended to be some good fun. Both are truly fantastic cars, very different in many ways and just alike is some very important ways when compared to lesser cars.

In any event, I will cheerfully buy lunch, on the weekend of March 1-2 at Willow Springs in Rosamond, California, for the first street-driven-to-the-track Ferrari owner/driver (no ringers) that can lap faster than my lowly normally aspirated totally stock Lotus Elise, which, by the way, is this 61 year old's daily driver.

This is an open track weekend on the big track, so plenty of room for you guys to stretch your red horse's legs. There are normally a dozen or so Ferraris at this event. Well run and lots of fun! Anyone interested can email me at [email protected] for entry info.

I hope to see some of you there even if I don't have to buy lunch.

Forza!

 

One thing to consider is not many Elise/Exige owners keep their cars stock. There's a lot of modding going on in the Lotus community. There are now 3-4 reasonably priced supercharger hits, a couple turbo kits and countless suspension/aero/weight saving mods. Don't be surprised if some of the lotus your running with are 4-5 seconds a lap faster than a stock elise/exige.

Here is a video of a car you might not want to run into on the track.. And remember this is a street driven car.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJb0I74x3Rs

BTW, love the Ferrari's, I'm sure I could afford to purchase one, just not sure I could afford the maintenance. Just don't count out the little lotus, it does what it does well.

 

+111111111111

When it comes to RAW ponies and precision my 2002 Esprit is a rocket (slightly modified).....I have seen 180MPH and it ran out of gears, not power. At that speed it was VERY snug and sure footed. It roasts my modded F355.

The 355 also gets that floating/loose feeling at around 150. I'm still playing with suspension (could be the culprit).....

Bottom line-----I'm a Ferrari fan, they are just so good looking and civilized by comparison.....

 

The SAME DRIVER SHOULD be faster around a track in a Scuderia vs even a Lotus Exige Cup Car on slicks. However, that same driver probably could maintain higher speeds around corners in a Lotus.

There's no doubt the Ferrari is the better overall car! But in MOST cases, the Lotus is faster around corners mainly due to its lighter weight (it's good handling is assumed for the sake of this argument)!

Ferrari's are great cars, but face it, there are other cars out there that are faster -- quite a number of which happens to be a lot cheaper!

If an Ariel Atom owner shows up here and make the same claim -- are you going to pull that Top Gear board again?

 

Better is subjective... Sure the Scuderia is faster, but hey it should be, you can buy at least 4 Elises or 3 Exige S 240's for the price of 1 Scuderia. I would personally say the lotus is better because its cheaper to buy, cheaper to track, easier on brakes and tires, more reliable, MUCH CHEAPER to maintain, better gas mileage.

The bottom line is they are both great cars and all that matters is you get the one thats best for you.

 

Where are you guys getting your prices from?

The Elise is about 52k now, the Elise supercharged is 62k, the exige s 240 is 70k+, and the Esprit was about 94-97k..

That is the correct prices on these cars..

as an elise and V8 Esprit owner I can tell you that they are fantastic on the track and hold to the general public just as much cache as any ferrari/lamborghini..

as a matter of fact compared to most exotics I have driven/been in the ELISE was the car that turned most heads..

A lot of hate for the lotus here, kind of odd since it's a true exotic w/ a racing pedigree that deserves respect..

There are not that many car companies out there that truly deserve respect, Lotus and Ferrari are 2 of them.. and both deserve equal respect..

FYI my esprit with a proper "uncorking" dynos at 450hp and 430TQ, at 2900lbs it pulls on a f430 and kills the f360 in the straights.. and takes corners just as well.. Not bad for a car that started it's initial run over 30 years ago.

In all honesty if I was blindingly rich and could have every car made to man, I would ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY own a 1986 Esprit, a 2004 Esprit, and a 2008 Exige S240 in my collection..

 

I've had my Lotus sideways twice, both times turning left from a standing start on a slick wet road. This would never happen on dry pavement, but there's enough torque in such a light car to cut the wheels loose. I imagine the Exiege is the same.

Ken

 

Actually the V8 esprit tops out at about 197 in 5th gear.. you sure you had that foot down long enough pal? at 450hp MINE gets there and gets there fast!

 

The scuderia is maybe more dramatic. Is it faster at any number of tracks compared to an exige s. I doubt it. Also a scuderia is academic. Even if the 200k was not an issue, ferrari has such a incestuous sales policy that you cant actuly buy one unless you are prepared to figuratively blow the dealer and blow a lot of extra$$ their way. So yes if you have the money plus say the cost of an exige to blow the dealers way on top of the ferrari cost are prpared to beg etc and little self respect you can get a scuderia. True the scuderia is more dramatic, more of a thouroghbred but on the track lets say not more than equal to a lotus and on the street less usable.

IMHO if you really care about driving and want ultimate performance short of a cup car a lotus exige 240 or better yet 211 is hard to beat. If you want to walter mitty and dont mind the $$$ in mechanical repairs then a challenge car is great. Most ferraris are very good but not really great at the track, they are dramatic fun on the street but overkill for the USA roads. Yes if I lived somewhere with big open roads no cops traffic etc the ferrari is best by far. For the track the lotus 211 will probably slaughter it.

 

Actually, we use that term for feet against the inside of the back window, head under the dash. We've all been there; done that!

While Lotus has a reputation for being somewhat fragile, it's really because one part usually does 2-3 jobs and there's no margin for error. You have to stay on top of all issues; you can't let anything go from wheel bearings, bushes, carb rebuilds (older cars of course), etc. It's much more of a purpose built race car for the road than a Ferrari, except the F 40 and cars of that ilk.

Ken

 

With the Elise/Exige variants the cars have become much more reliable. The new Toyota engine and drive train is just that, Toyota and with that comes dependability. The biggest issues with the Elise/Exige is the number of parts that rattle loose and fall off due to the harsh/stiff suspension. Other than tightening a bolts here and there my Exige S has had zero problems after 11,000+ miles and a few track days. Long gone are the days of bringing your Lotus to the dealer on a wrecker..

 

The last few years of the esprits were pretty good too, my V8 is fairly reliable.. well about a f355.. it's far from disastrous..

but yeah the elsie/exige is a pretty safe bet as far as drivertrain/engine

 

What is the general opinion on used Elises and Exiges?

Normally I don't have an issue with buying a used car (my Ferrari had 5 previous owners), but just thinking about how much (ab-)use these cars get, I'm somewhat reluctant. Justified?

 

There is a larger market of low mile used Elise/Exige's. A lot of people buy the cars and park them in their garage after finding out they can not live with the car or its not what they expected. If you have not been in an Elise/Exige you will need to know that it is very raw with almost no amenities, the ride is extremely stiff, A/C is below average, no trunk space and getting in and out is very difficult for some people.

On a side note Ive seen several Elise's go for sale with under 1000 miles for a $10,000+ discount and a non-tracked low millage Elise can be had in the low 30's. A used Exige S can be had in the mid 50's.

 

On the other hand, I drive mine every day, don't find the Sport suspension to be harsh (my wife's Mini is worse), find the AC to be fine for Palm Springs as long as the top is on and I don't park in the sun, am surprised at how large the trunk actually is (plenty for two for a long weekend-try a Ford GT for NO TRUNK!) and will concede that getting in and out is a bit dodgy, although there is a great video showing how to do it.

Great used ones are easily available and the price seems to be relatively stable. Supply and demand in action. The cars are fragile in some areas and pretty tough in others. I think almost everyone is pleasantly surprised by the overall reliability.

Drive one hard down a windy road and then decide. Or another way to look at it could be that the Lotus Elise/Exige is not a very practical car, but it is probably the most practical motorcycle made. In some of the best ways, it is more like a great bike than a car.

 

One more thing, the Elise is a SPORTS CAR, not a GT. Hardly anybody is making sports cars anymore.

No big AC, no navigation system, no power mirrors, no stability control, no standard traction control, no six way power seat, no paddle shifters, no extra soundproofing, no climate control, no cruise control, no memory seats, no heated mirrors, no heated seats, no cup holders, no power top, etc. etc. etc. Kind of like when sports cars started. Ok, I will admit I have power windows, but Lotus claims the mechanism is lighter than the manual ones (probably by about a gram!).

And an Elise weighs almost 1100 pounds less than a Boxter S.

 

There are two kinds of used Elises out there: ones that were beat to hell on tracks, and ones where the buyer liked the look but then found out it was way too raw for their taste. Be sure to purchase the latter! As for the Exiege, I can't imagine anyone buying one except for spirited driving!

Ken

 

It's fair to answer the original question as it is. Turns out the guy has a standard US spec Elise from what I gather.

2 questions:

Out corner - yes I believe a new Scuderia could out corner in most cases

Out run from a dead stop - yes, I'm sure an Enzo would have no problem as well as most every new Ferrari produced as well.

To "worry" that Ferrari and Lotus are in the same category makes it sound like you want Ferrari to be better than Lotus. That is a matter of opinion. Do some reading on Lotus history and Ferrari history and you can decide whether or not they are both "worthy".
I like to think of Ferrari as gold and Lotus as silver and not in a 1st place 2nd place kind of setting but on a practical level. They both have many great utilizations, some people like one more than the other, and when it comes down to it the gold always costs more.

Me - I love both Lotus and Ferrari. I own a Lotus.

 

I love Lotus also and would walk proud as the owner of one.

 

To fill out another thought on this thread. Something that I tell some of my gearhead buddies who have interest in Ferraris and know of my background with the marque is "Every car guy should own a GOOD Ferrari at least once in his life!". I won't open the thread of what is a good Ferrari. Needless to say, some have better resale than others.

To me, there is really nothing quite like the magic of a Ferrari. The aura, the screaming motors, the feeling of being tied to easily one of the greatest names in racing and automobiles, period, is just fantastic. And yes, there is the "cool at Starbuck's factor" which can't be denied.

Both can be great fun on a track. Driven well, either (assuming the Ferrari is at least a 360) can show most other street cars a very attractive rear. Both are very visceral and tap into your soul.

Frankly, I just find the Lotus to be more fun on the street. I don't have heavy traffic in my area and love the ability to squirt through small openings and jam the redline in the lower gears on a normal run to the store, sort of like a modern 246 Dino. The longer legs and greater dimensions of virtually all Ferraris would have me stuck in lower gears and driving like a responsible human being.

There is no denying that most recent Ferraris will out-accelerate a normally aspirated Elise, so this might be a variation on the old saying of "It's more fun to drive a slow car fast, than a fast car slow.". Still low 13's in the quarter mile is not too sluggish.

Besides, if I want real mind numbing acceleration, I take the Ducati.

 

I totally agree and that's one of the reason's I miss my MR2T so much.

 

My Europa is even slower than an Elise, but that doesn't take away the fun. The car has way more legs than I have talent to drive it at the limits. And on public roads one has to pick your spots anyway. I understand the Ferrari thing though; I'll buy one sooner or later I'm sure (I have 4 cars now and no room for a 5th! I am NOT selling the Lotus...).

The Ferrari is more emotional I think because of the mystique, and in general they look better too; at least the 308's do which is what I'd get. The Lotus is really just for the driving experience.

Ken

 

Good post. I'd be happy with one of each, please.

 

Sadly, one of each is probably required in our imperfect world.

Oh no, now to decide which one of each...

 

Had them both and love them both, but I much prefer tracking a Lotus to my F-cars.

As for which is a "real" car -- Ferrari hands down.
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