MASSA Intends To Bid For 2008 WDC

+1
Very well said.
Alto I would agree with others here that the very last part is more like 20% realistic possibility and 80% wishful thinking. This still does not make Massa a mediocre midfielder.

But hen again , what were the odds for Kimi winning last year 3 races from the end?

 

I have no problem with anything you just said. Don't take the comments on this forum seriously. Most people like a winner, so no matter what the price, they want a winner. That is BS. I agree with you, although I have learned to appreciate Alonso, I do not want to see him drive for Ferrari even if it means a losing season(s). There is such a thing as honor. But then Ted and Andreas have never figured out....oh, well, never mind.

I believe you are a true Ferrari fan.

 

What I do not understand, is how you can be a fan of the Scuderia, and put down any of its team members. Just because I appreciate Phil Massa, does not mean I do not appreciate the ability of Kimi Raikkonen. I defend Massa because he is totally underestimated and most of you have no friggin' idea what you are talking about. The number of posts you have does not equate knowledge.

Time to ignore this thread, as I do not want to admit my disappointment in the human race.

 

+1, I favor Kimi as he is my favorite driver, but Massa is my 2nd favorite because he drives for the Scuderia. I would still be happy if Felipe, just not as happy as if Kimi won.
Ferrari First, Kimi Second.

 

whoa! being a fan of the Scuderia SHOULD allow you to criticize! blind support isn't necessarily good. "most of you have no friggin' idea what you are talking about"... WHO ARE YOU to make such a statement? oh wait, you're the Pope of the Shumassa religion, so you are that mighty, making it ok to make such a presumption. you say you're dissapointed in the human race? well, sir, you must be disappointed in yourself. Man, you come off ridiculously elitist.

 

Thanks Ted. Even though I may not completely agree with all you've stated, I do appreciate your input.



See ya on Thursday

 

There are several types of Ferrari fan and it seems to me that, despite your claim above, you just don't like those who are unbiased, rational and objective. From all your posts it appears that your working definition of a fan is someone who is completely biased in favour of his team to the exclusion of common sense. Anyone who genuinely believes that Ferrari is squeaky clean and constructs fantastical scenarios to smooth over the team's imperfections isn't living in the real world. Someone who knows Ferrari isn't squeaky clean but ignores and excuses the imperfections because they want to see them win at any cost isn't a real fan either.

As an aside, I haven't seen anything that suggests this site is for Ferrai sycophants only, in fact I don't think the word 'fan' appears anywhere, although I'm sure almost everyone is, although obviously not by your definition. If you don't like the views expressed by a substantial number of posters on here, that's unfortunate, but they aren't going to go away just because you think they are not 'true fans'.

 

17 pages later, I need a drink.
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+100 On the money Ian

 

LOL

 

That's hysterical!!

 

Spot on!

 

yep. but then according to some here, being 'supporters'/'fans' we're not allowed to 'criticize' the drivers or the actions of 'our team'-- yet at the same time those said individuals harbor covert bias/hate and do a little criticizing of their own (ie. the bashing of Kimi, calling for his head, earlier last season). there are quite a few here that truly support Ferrari but still have the ability to be objective, or a least try to be, in their views or opinions. and there is friction between the camp that seems to gloss over most everything, and the camp that often tries to take a step back to get a better look at the picture.

 

Makes me wonder then why you waste your time hanging around in this forum. Might be easier to just exchange emails with YB.

Speaking of, what was it again that he said?

Ah yes. Let's revisit this in November.

 

My comments are aimed at Ted and Andreas. In case you did not know, we PM and talk all the time. They know I mean nothing personal. They jab me, I jab back. But your comments certainly appear as if you are the heir-elitest. Who are you to make such judgements? Besides, Pope is not the correct title. I prefer.......never mind.

One can criticize all they want, but then I have the right to defend my position as well. Got it?

 

But Andreas, what fun would it be to have this be a one sided forum that only agrees with you? You would have nothing to look forward to when wake up in the morning in that frozen tundra you live. Oh, I shouldn't forget to mention your evil twin, Ted. You two would have this forum all to yourselves, beating up on those not prepared to take your crticism. Someone must defend the poor and the innocent that believe in truth and justice for all. In the American way. And that Massa will be WDC in 2008.

(I hope we are not jinxing this topic with this thread and then someone like Hamilton wins the WDC)

Massa 2008

(You should have come to WPB for Cavallino and PBSCW)
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I do believe he said the same thing last year. BTW I like the addition of 2008 in your sig, just this year keep it up the ENTIRE season.

 

do you have a larger picture than that? really a great picture

 

Sorry, I do not. But Yellowbird??

 

Ron, Your right a onesided forum would be crap, and someone has to flog a dead horse (joke) I have nothing against Massa!!. Ted makes for great reading, speaks his mind I respect him for that whether right or wrong. Andreas, a great Mod down the line both F1 nut's with great history/knowledge if it wasn't for these type of folks I would'nt hang around here as much.

Jinxed !!!!...

 

That sounds good, except that "criticize" often takes the form of simply repeating a mantra that Massa is was and always will be a mid-fielder.

And "glossing over" is used to describe not blaming one driver for team actions.

I realize that people watch races different ways, but when people accuse Massa of being "bad in the wet" based on Japan '07, it tells me that people were listening to the commentary instead of watching -- two or three times I heard the Speed commentators say "Is that Massa off again?" when the helmet was white: Kimi. They were *both* going off -- Ferrari had mounted inters instead of the full wets on both cars. Kimi even overshot the pit entrance when called in (by FIA order) to change.

When people look at a team error that impacted both drivers and see only that "massa is bad", I have to wonder just how successful people are at "trying to be" objective.

Massa's driving in the rain in '07 simply didn't show anything to support the "massa is bad in the wet" mantra so often repeated. On the basis of that, I reviewed the '06 race that begat that mantra, and found that the results there weren't all driver error either.

I'll admit that I criticized Kimi for some of his starts in '07. I think I've figured out where it came from (experimenting with prime/option tire strategies) -- but it *did* look odd to have two or three cars simply waltz past Kimi off the line. The prime/option tires were new to everybody, in '07. That's something I'd have thought Kimi and the team should have been working out during pre-season testing, rather than during the season. Given the contract limits, I can understand that there may have been limitations.

I'm hoping to see Kimi get "in the groove" much earlier in '08s. But I also expect to see Massa continue to improve. Ferrari has two very good drivers. I can't see why people insist on calling one "bad" in order to feel good about the other -- whichever driver you "prefer".

But, unlike others here, I *do* care about the WCC -- So I don't care which Ferrari driver wins the WDC.

I'd like to see them take the top two spots, but given team strategy ("cheating" to some), that's not likely unless it's a runaway season for the Scuderia. And FIA micromanagement isn't likely to allow that to happen again.

Based on having watched Massa's driving since he was a rookie at Sauber, I have to conclude that he's still improving. Every time I say that, I get a flood of "limits are limits" replies.

(Define "limits": if you know what is keeping you back, you can overcome it. It's when you leave your limits as a gray fog across your horizion that it blocks you. Once you define the shape of your obstacle, you can find a way around it. People don't have "a limit" -- they have a series of obstacles. At some point, "diminishing returns" causes people to stop trying to get past them .... unless you mean to be the best in the world: then you have to stop believing in absolute limits.

At some point, you may meet a limit you can't map -- but if you don't believe there's a way past it, you'll never find it. You might not, anyway, but giving up equals failure every time. I'm amazed how many people really object to the belief that barriers can be circumvented. If you'd ever worked with firewalls, you'd know better. But I think the objection is that it's no longer P.C. to call giving up the same as failure.

Just talk to people about owning Ferraris -- It's astounding the excuses people invent to explain why "real people" simply couldn't own one - to believe that it's an absolute "limit" that can't be gotten around.)

 

You can set your limit as high as you like and believe that you can achieve it, as regards to owing a Ferrari this should, all being well get easier depending on your personal priorities. IMO in F1 if you are gifted as in fast out the box so to speak then experience is all you need to become a better driver, if you are at a stage where you have to learn how to handle and drive a F1 car, it takes that bit longer to reach each goal by the time you do the goal posts have moved.

What adds to the mix of being a great driver IMO is the abilty to adapt quickly and give feedback as in regards to how you think the car could be improved.

 

If he is to win, as long as he is driving for Ferrari that is a possibility, I think we could say its due to hardwork, dedication etc. If he wins of course that is what the ever present, bandwagon jumping press will say. "Oh, he has always been close, always improving etc." IN the end would they not be right, if in fact he does win a WDC?

Of course they would say the same things about Heidfeld, the "journeyman" driver. If FM wins it will be 'real' and deserved. We all thought Kimi deserved the WDC correct? Even though 3 races from the end, his odds were long against winning it. He was there driving and doing his utmost to be in a position to win. Thats all you can do whether its Kimi, LH, Alonso or FM.

 

Really? Can't remember the last time I got a PM from you.

If you're stating that YB is the only one on here who knows anything about F1, it is kinda hard to understand a comment like this. If you are saying I know nothing about F1, I do take that personal.