Sorry for my mistake. It's nice to know that people's concerns get heard. Thank you for sharing your cars with us! They are truly amazing in both history and design. Bill
+1000 I can't believe this discussion is still going on. Two different shows for different folks. As I said last year, I wish the organizers of these two events didn't see each other so much as competition and more like complementary events and would organize in such a way as to allow spectators to do both comfortably and over a longer period (Saturday and Sunday; like '07). Competition, in this case, is not a good thing and will probably weaken both events. Cavallino will lose many late model cars from their lawn and the associated younger crowd that will keep them going financially for the next decade, and PBSCW will never attract the classics and the cars with race heritage and history without Jim G's support; in other words, all their eggs are in one basket (two baskets, if you count Fux). The fact that there are classics and modern "supercars" as well as track days and yacht and plane hops in a single weekend is what makes both events have the critical mass that is required to bring the heavyweight iron in. We NEED both events and hopefully they will both continue for years to come. What I would like to see is, as mentioned earlier, the Concorso on Saturday, PBSCW on Sunday and an additional all marques trackday on Monday for owners of other "supercars", after all, what defines the weekend isn't the "yachts" or planes, or even the silicone (sorry Ron), but the sight of these machines actually DRIVEN. The rest is filler (pun intended).
I guess it would have been fine if they had kicked some chickens, but they inadvertently kicked some big dogs as well. Bad idea, as any mailman will tell you. BTW, Kudos on your cars! Very, very nice and very accessible for us regular fans to gawk at; extra points for that. Maybe next year I'll get to say hi and not just drool at the machinery.
Thanks! Minor point but the Audi that was at PBSCW last year has more race history than any car existent. The last Ferrari that went up against it finished hundreds of miles behind that puppy. The F1 Ferrari that was at PBSCW this year has a bit of Race History as well. The Ferrari prototypes that will be there next year have nice Race History and if the calls I've been getting pan out I think there will be more than a few classic Ferrari's there next year too.
It's all positive, I never saw this thread as a controversy otherwise I would have stayed a mile away. Well done to John Barnes for starting the Cavallino classic, well done to John Temerian to creating a different event. It is all natural evolution.
Just one second, did you ever hear me say I had anything against silicone? In fact, I would like to have some of that silcone up against me right now. I like filler of all kinds, especially when it enhances aerodynamics.
Bill- I think Alicia Barnes of Cavallino monitors this board at least sporadically, but why not just send an e-mail to Cavallino? In my experience John and Alicia are very approachable, and I suspect they'd be glad to receive your feedback. Ira
Gee... Ira is onto something (thanks mate). Apples and Oranges describes the events and John and Alicia are worth chatting with, but some people just dont get it. On all of the other forums I chat on, I have never run into such a group of bashers who base their statements on limited knowledge of facts. Its almost like there is a group out to smear the Cavallino name. hmmmm??? Here are some items to pay attention to: 1- For those who have not been watching the Cavallino Concorso over the years... The Breakers Hotel has continually added walls and changed landscaping making each year a challenge to setup. For all of you critics... try setting up your own event with constant changes within a tight field. The wall was a bad idea, but wait the Cavallino staff did not put it there!!! 2- I spoke with John and Alicia in the bar later Saturday (nice to see you two again if you are reading) and they ran out of the red armbands... all 3,000 of them and had to switch to crazy looking ones. Hmmmm... that would make this a very successful Saturday. Try asking the valets when they ran out of room in the parking lot. It was around 10:00 AM. 3- I agree that some of the competition cars were missing, but the field was quite full (better then some years and equal to others). Oh wait maybe they should add more cars and put them right on the green??? Oh Thats right you CAN NOT put cars on a green without seriously damaging it. I find few people taking the time to bash Supercar weekend (no Yachts as promised, I was told the Ritz thing never happened, and more ). At least Cavallino has their full schedule. Mind you I am not interest in bashing the Supercar event (I hope they continue to do well and grow), I just do not enjoy people who try to pass hearsay or opinions as factual information, yet they have no knowledge of the truth, or are trying to put into motion their own crusade(s). Cavallino is Cavallino like Pebble Beach is Pebble Beach, which has its competition as well. Over 50 years of Pebble Beach and many stray comments later its still running strong. I made a stray comment about the P4/5 and apologized for my mistake, now lets see if any of you blokes can manage to sort your bollocks and do the same. And that is my 5 Euros
I agree that some people just don't get it but it's not something I worry about as I think as time goes by they will...
Quite the generalization there! As I suppose you are 'calling me out' since I posted that the Cavallino concours was not as enjoyable as last year, I'll respond. I posted that the Cavallino event had more vintage cars on the area closest to the hotel compared to other years, but the cars were not as exciting to me. I stand by that estimation. Last year there were several TR and a few special race cars. To me they were more interesting and exciting cars. I also said that I did not like the seperation of the field. I understand the Breakers put up some kind of wall, but as had been suggested there might have been a better way to organize it (see about using the two fairways to the south). If Cavallino is going to become a 'vintage Ferrari only' concours, I would lose much of my current interest in it. If it is not going that direction, I'm happy with whatever the Barnes's do. It is obviously a big effort to put on the show, but Ferrari is regarded as 'the Best of the Best' by many. As such, the show is held to the same standard as the brand it is showing. As a celebration of the Ferrari heritage and company, the current (and future) Ferraris should be viewed with an appreciation as well as the vintage cars. I enjoyed the show, and would continue to go, but if the show becomes the same every year I would skip the event most times, feeling like I am not really seeing anything new. Ferrari continually evolves and sets new standards for performance. To adequately represent the brand in a concours the organizers need to also evolve. It takes quite an effort to prepare a car for judging at Cavallino, and if I were to make that effort I would like to feel that I am part of the concours, and not a second class citizen (even though by owning a 348 I already am!). Currently the owner of the only 348 in the concours has his 348 for sale. Assuming it sells within the next year, there would be no 348's represented! To me, that is a sad day. The 348 makes up about 9,000 production units, and to have none of them represented takes away from showing what many Ferrari workers did during many of their hours building these cars. The organizers have built a great event that has a huge following, and I think they can really make a few changes that would make it even better. The only gripe with the concours is the appearance of 'two fields'. The all makes show will have a hard time competing with the PBSCW, but could capture a great event for all makes by setting it up as a luxury event that can welcome other sports car owners into the fold so to speak, and showing them the style that has made Cavallino a success through the years. The bashing is two sided here, as I (and many others) posted that the spectator use of the cars at PBSCW is unacceptable. The difference is that Jim (who does not run the PBSCW) has relayed that the PBSCW organizers recognize the problem and will address it before next year's show. Alicia or someone else connected to Cavallino should also relay some info to just say either "We understand your concerns and will address them", or "We understand that there is some dissatisfaction with this year's show, but the event will have up and down year's, hopefully next year will have more entrants". A non response indicates a lack of interest in the opinions of the customers in today's internet world! BT
Bill, You're assuming everyone in the Ferrari community monitors Fchat or at least knows what is going on in Fchat. Since this may not be the case, maybe someone can send Cavallino an email with their concerns and post their response (or lack thereof) here. C.
Trust me on this, Everyone knows about this discussion. There are several who have contacted me privately and I think next year you're going to see some really interesting Ferrari's at PBSCW. I also think that the spirit of PBSCW where all cars that people are proud of are welcome is an important thing to foster in todays world.
Cavallino has no email contact, but I did send Alicia a PM and left a phone message so that they are at least there is this discussion going on. It's all good... BT
IMO, the only thing I was bothered by was why schedule PBSC on the same day as Cavallino? Wasn't it on Sunday last year? I just hope the intentions were not to compete. There is NO comparison, both were equally great. I just wish I had more time in the day to see everything, or even had the time to see some old friends.
BT - My post is not directed to entities with personal desires to see specific Ferrari(s) so please understand I am not trying to target you. There is a lot going on here on this forum that is in bad taste. I am going to contact John and Alicia again and see what their thoughts are. I know they are still quite busy so wish me luck. Please note that the town of Palm Beach and the Breakers have very strict guidelines on events. I too would be happy to see the fields, cars and parking increase, but politics and shows rarely mix well. Actually, what does politics mix well with? Lets keep our fingers crossed for the future.
LOL!!! I think the title, with the word "versus", was not meant to be so provocative. Both events are awesome and I hope they both continue for a long time, as I feel very fortunate to live so close to such world-class events!
