308 V12 conversion begins | Page 29 | FerrariChat

308 V12 conversion begins

Discussion in '308/328' started by mk e, Oct 9, 2007.

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  1. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    I knew Lana would never read this, I forgot you were following it.

    I don't know how you dealt with 5 of us, Lana and I are having trouble with 1. Lana labeled last week the 2nd worst week of her life, right behind the 1st week home from the hospital with Victor when we were up constantly and both had horrible colds. .......we miss grandma SOOOO much.
     
  2. pad

    pad Formula 3

    Sep 30, 2004
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    Mike,

    Enjoy this moments. You will refer to them as the good old days when the teenage years arrive....
     
  3. atlantaman

    atlantaman Formula 3

    Mar 31, 2002
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    Charles
    After I was about 5 yrs into my v-12 conversion, a very smart friend looked at it and asks: what do you do if you damage the motor or tranny? after a very long silence I responded----errr start over!

    Not to spoil your good mood, but yo do realize that with the supercharger and 600bhp, if somethign breaks, you may be back are square 1 ! maybe 450bhp may be safer on parts......
     
  4. atlantaman

    atlantaman Formula 3

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    Actually my project is soon going into the record books as the longest motor change in history. Since I started in October 1988 and it is not finished yet.......
     
  5. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    bolt on stuff has a lot of advantages......

    The thought of stuff breaking is never a good one. The plan right now is natural aspiration. I think the TR heads will flow 600 hp of air without doing anything radical to them. It it’s 550, that’s fine too, but I think it will be right in that range.
    The problem is that at 4.9 liter I think it will want to spin to about 8500 rpm which is higher than I’d like to run it. That is where the 348 liners and bumping it to about 5.5 liters comes in. The 10% increase in displacement will drop the hp peek by 10% and make peek power at around 7700 and that just seems a lot safer to me.

    If anything goes wrong with this engine I will most likely replace it with a mildly (5 –8 psi) supercharged stockish 400/412 engine and that will be that.
     
  6. davehelms

    davehelms F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2004
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    It was at about 3 or 4 yrs old when son Bill suggested that I hold the nail and he would hit it with the hammer. Attempting to be the good father......

    I had brown hair until my 2 daughters turned teenager, it made the 1-2 yr old range look like a walk in the park. I survived that period by repeating to myself endless times, "Avenge yourself, live long enought to be a PITA to your kids". Living the dream daily. Twenty some years later I really enjoy game planning a Vette restoration that Niki has under taken and working elbow to elbow with Bill on the race cars and TR3 restoration he is doing. Still working on getting the idea of free labor implimented but I have hit a roadblock with that one.

    Another year or two and you can build a short work bench in the garage corner, throw a hand full of nails and an old punky 2x4 on it with a hammer and get back to working hard. At least for an hour or two until he misses the nail and finds a finger. Funny, I can smile when thinking about those times now.

    Dave
     
  7. wantaferrari

    wantaferrari Rookie

    Dec 30, 2006
    47
    I don't want to hijack this thread in any way but I have to jump in and say what a wonderful post from your dad. I hope that makes you feel wonderful to have you dad jump into this and tell the whole world that he thinks you turned out well. That is more important than what any of us think and what you are able to do with a Ferrari. That is the only post I have ever read here that actually brought a tear to my eyes.

    Please pass this along to him as that single short post says an awful lot about your dad and I hope you are as proud of him as he obviously is of you!

    Scott
     
  8. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    #708 mk e, Jan 31, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Well, I finally got up the ambition to lift the deck lid into place and it looks pretty good. I put a set of the throttle bodies on about where they are going to end up the there is almost exactly 4” of clearance to the deck lid, that’ll do.

    I looked at moving the engine a little more to the right, but then it looks a little stupid in the engine bay IMO and the harmonic damper hits the gas tank. It looks like the engine stays right where it is and I'll just deal with the bell housing clearance issues and only have to modify 1 gas tank if it comes to it.
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  9. Jdubbya

    Jdubbya The $10 Trillion Man
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    I can almost hear if firing up now! Can't wait for you to finish but the journey and documentation along the way is great too!!
     
  10. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    You guys are going to be disappointed in me this week…..no new pictures. I just didn’t plan ahead very well and the weekend arrived and I hadn’t ordered material so I couldn’t make anything :(

    I'm trying to figure out now if I can make an easy way to service the clutch without really gouging out the gas tank or having to pull the engine. I'm thinking that since I’m redoing bell housing/drop gear housing I might be able to make it as some kind of assembly maybe so I can get the clutch shaft out without having to pull the entire set-up back 2-3 inches before the shaft is free. Or maybe some way to get the 2-3 inches using a different shap housing. I’ve got 3 days before I need to have a material order in…..
     
  11. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    #711 mk e, Feb 4, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Tonight I took a quick skim cut on the top and end of the new rail so the engine will sit straight while I decide what to do...

    I need to come up with a shape for the pan extension so it looks right, the oil drains, and it doesn't hit the frame. I know it probably seems a bit trivial, but little details can make a big difference in how the finished job looks…..I don’t want to get the wrong stamp when it’s done. :)

    Time to start playing with cardboard to see what looks the best I guess, but I think nap time is about over so it will be tomorrow.
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  12. Hans

    Hans F1 Veteran

    Feb 17, 2006
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    Mark, you're not the only one who is missing Lana's mother to babysit! ;)

    Keep 'em progress reports coming!!!!

    Hans
     
  13. Bob Downing

    Bob Downing Karting

    Nov 7, 2003
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    Think about ripping out those fuel tanks and putting a cell where the spare tire is. The old tanks probably have some rust going on. That should help with your clearance issues.
     
  14. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    That will be my last resort I think. Right now the fuel in very close to the mass center so the balance of the car is constant with fuel load. Moving the tank to the front gives me more room but makes the weight on the front wheels change a bout 10% with fuel load and also increases the polar moment making it more slugish into and out of corners.
     
  15. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    I have a general plan now for the motor mounting featurse I think and I'll order the materail tomorrow. I'm trying to keep the block mounting features stock just in case I should need to get another block some day.

    Once I get the engine bolted down I'll give the bell housing some more thought but I've got a vague plan that starts with the band saw and include a lot of welding :)
     
  16. Argento839

    Argento839 F1 Veteran

    Oct 21, 2005
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    Mark you are a brave man. How long do you reckon it will take you to get the mechanicals all buttoned up?
     
  17. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    I'm not sure. There's still a lot to do. I’m trying to get all the big scary cutting/welding stuff done first….I’d guess another 2 months at the rate I’m going and the cases and stuff will be done. Maybe 1 month messing with the transfer gears to get those the way I want them. Then I’ll probably do the headers, cam covers and such for another 2-3 months. Then I’ll be ready to assemble the trans, figure a month there. Final engine machining and assembly, 3-4 months and I’ll be done next spring……maybe.
     
  18. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    #718 mk e, Feb 6, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I decided I had to cut a little more off the right side of the trans so I roughed that in tonight, hopefully tomorrow I can start welding it back together.

    On the left side I’m thinking I’m going to weld on a semicircle for the main bearing cap to seal to just like on the OEM 400 pan and then band saw the now unnecessary engine section right off the first left side end casting leavign only the trans end plate…..maybe
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  19. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
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    Dec 29, 2006
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    LOL!

    I'm not sure if this a car or a sculpture.

    You are definitely pushing the envelope of hotrodding!
     
  20. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    There are a few car guys at work....they make a point of telling me any time they buy a new part to BOLT ON.

    The sculpting starts tomorrow when the UPS man brings me more metal :)
     
  21. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    The metal came today, but tap time only last about 40 minutes today.....welding in off until Saturday or Sunday I guess :(
     
  22. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    #722 mk e, Feb 9, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I got a little time today and made the flange that the lower part of the timing cover bolts to. This is going to be a dry sump set-up the little roundish area on the right side where the oil pick up tube would normally go will simply get a boss for an AN fitting and then a line from the an oil tank mounted somewhere.


    Tomorrow I should have most of the day and be able to get the pan extension parts made and hopefully welded in. Slow but steady I guess…..

    I took a good long look at the bell housing last night. I had it in my head that converting to a hydraulic throw-out bearing assembly would save my a ton of room, but the reality is I thin it would not be more than ¼” if I optimize the mechanical stuff already there. I’m still not quite sure how I’m going to make all the pieces fit the way I want…..I’m pretty sure it will involve band sawing and weld some how though :)

    The problem is that the bearings obviously have to be in exactly the right spots. That means they have to be machined after welding, but the castings are already machined. So I either need to replace the whole section with a chunk of billet or bore out the bearing areas and weld in a sleeve so they can be machine back to size in the correct location. A problem for another day I suppose.
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  23. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    #723 mk e, Feb 9, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I thought nap time was over but it wasn't quite so back to the shop to start the pan extensions. I want the pant to match the look of the engine and that has round corners. I don't have a roller so the easiest way for me to make that is to just buy tubind with about the right radius, quarter it, and then tweak it into the right sahpe with a mallet....plus a little weld will hide a lot of mis-match.

    One side is pretty much done, just a little more triming then one more and a plate to go between and it's time to weld.
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  24. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    #724 mk e, Feb 10, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I got the right side all welded together today. Once I grind all the welds I do't think anyone will ever know it didn't come that way. I just need to make a semicircle and weld it on the left and the trans case is ready for final machining.

    The case has to be finished machined with the pins to locate the engine before I can move on to the bell housing and drop gears if I want to have any hope for getting all the parts to fit together in the end.
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  25. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

    Jun 20, 2003
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    This sentence came out wrong! I didn't mean to imprison him for a year in the crib!! I meant:

    You can't take your eyes off of him for basically a year, except when he is imprisoned in the crib. (i.e. sleeping safely!)

    LOL!

    Birdman
     

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