308 Engine Rebuild & CIS to TWM Throttle Bodies Conversion Thread!

I've found that there are citrus cleaners, & then there are citrus cleaners that really work. Sounds like you got a good one.
I've tried several from Home Depot & auto parts stores, & most weren't really up to serious engine & parts cleaning.

I've been using Elgene's Solve-All #1 for about 4 years now. It does a great job. Not too pricey, last time I bought it it was $65 for a 5-gallon plastic drum + another $15 or so for UPS.

http://www.chargar.com/Products/cln_m.html

Data Sheet:
http://www.chargar.com/DATA_SHEETS/Solve-All_datasheet.pdf

It can be diluted up to 4:1 with water & will still work fine for lighter cleaning jobs. I use it diluted about 2:1 for general engine bay cleaning with my compressed air engine washer, then soak the stubborn spots with full strength from a brush or squirt bottle.

 

How's it going? How's the fit of the inner spline of the synchro engagement hub on the shafts? This was pretty snug on both my gearboxes on 2-3 and 4-5, but not 1-R. Didn't concern me 'cause made sense from an assembly point of view.

Also, I found it very intersting how some of the bearings are pressed on and some aren't . . another clue as to what you assemble on the bench on what you assemble in the box.

Did the inner races of the large ball bearing assemblies slide off the shafts by hand? Curious if new one will. You may have to fit the new ones the the shaft . .. I polished about .0002 from the i.d. to get them to fit. You have to put these bearings back on the shaft while it's in the case . . that's why I think you don't really want inteference on this one bearing and the stock one's didn't seem that way .. what did you find?

The 4-5 gear assembly had come a little loose on one gearbox also . .. beaten up the spline on the lay shaft a little (output shaft I call it). Look at this closely.

Sean

 

The synchro inner splines were a very snug sliding fit (ie: I could barely pull them off by hand).

The inner races of the bearings in the center of both shafts are pressed on & are going to have to be pressed off.

4-5 gear ass'y was good & tight on the shaft.

Dog teeth on 1st gear are rounded off big time, ones on 2nd & 3rd look usable, but worn. I found a ZF logo & # on the dog teeth insert, am calling ZF tech support to see if that's separately available. If so, I'm going to try to press the old one off of the gear.

If not, then I'm going to setup my mill to try to sharpen the teeth. It's a complex setup: A rotary table with indexing wheel mounted on an angle table to the mill table, then a high speed air grinder w/diamond tip in the mill's spindle. Did a quick rough setup today & it looks doable, but will take some careful aligning & measuring to cut the tooth faces at the right angle.

I'm assuming that the bearings that have to go on in the case are the two large bearings on the clutch end?

It appears that the bearings with the flanged outer races can go on when the shafts are assembled before installation.
BTW, price of new gears is thru the roof: $1500 from one place $2000 from another, AND you need to buy the matching gear due to design changes over the years.

 

WE NEED PICTURES!



JIM

 

Question about when you remove the bell housing.

In the manual I am reading:
"In order to remove the driven gear use the special tool AV1795 which allows an easy operation. Special tool AV 979 shall be used for the clutch bell housing removal."

Do I need this tools, or can I do it without this tools?

 

Do you think that the teeth were originally hardened? I don't know, but it seems like the teeth put up with a lot of abuse and I would expect some sort of treatment. Would you be treating them somehow after cutting?

 

Definitely report back if that works.

These bearings (clutchs side) are tight on the shaft . . seemed to me you want to assemble these on the shafts before you put the shaft assemblies in the case . .. bearings on the opposite side are the ones you slide on after putting the shafts in the gearbox . .. what also made sense to me was to leave the races out until you put the shafts in . . . put the first bearing on the shaft, the races in the case, then the outer bearing and the nuts.

I don't think so . . . the flange is on the outside of the case . . .opposite to the side the shafts go in.

If $$$ is a serious concern I'd consider replacing with used parts.


You got it now Verell!

Take the diff apart . . . I've seen major wear on the spider gears/stubaxle output shafts (can't think of better description) and there's some thrust washers in there that like to break tabs. Internal parts to it are definitely ZF i.e. clutches and thrust washers . .. like to know if you can get the spider and output shaft gears from ZF.


Sean

 

http://lasvegas.craigslist.org/pts/536020733.html

Complete gearbox with blown 5th gear is how it was advertised a couple months ago.

I tried to buy this before but the guy wouldn't send me any pics. I just emailed him again to send me some pics with the cover off.

Sean

 

The're hard and tough . . that part sees some serious work. I of all people luv to save and re-use parts . . . don't think I'd try and save this part . . . even if there was enough material left to machine the shape back on I'd be concerned about the hardness afterwards (might of been case hardened) not to mention the possibility of hard shifting under load . . . pressing a new ring on would be a great save though. I would think those engagement teeth are as precise if not more precise than gear teeth . . . like ground to some shape with .0005.

 

He just responded to another email . . . I'll let you know if I end up getting it. I just want to see a pic with the cover off to see the damage.

Sean

 

Big thanks to TurboQV . . . he just picked up that gearbox. Maybe if the F-gods are smiling the gears are the same as what you need if you can't fix 'em.

Sean

 

My pleasure.

I only dropped it once off my dually. MKE where are you with your welder?

pics to come.

Cheers

Paul

 

JB weld! BTW from the pic I think it's 4th that stripped . .. not that it matters

 

Sure, JB weld and button it up!..... you don't need 4th or 5th gear for an autocross car anyway

 

Chris, A little more cleaning!!

 

We had the local F* gang over at Pizzamans yesterday. Chris & I pulled the newly arrived tranny's sump. It looks pretty much as advertised, synchros are new, new golden zinc nuts & bolts everywhere. While we had a crowd gathered around, we had a Synchromesh Transmission 101 session. I think everyone there now has a stronger understanding of how the transmission & synchros work.

It was hard to assess the dog teeth on the various gears in the available light, but it looked like the 1st,2nd, & 3rd gear dog teeth were in reasonable condition. 4th & 5th gears dog teeth were sharp as a razor(as were the one in the 1st tranny.).

The clutch side bearings have pretty visible wear stripes, so they've gotta go. Supposedly the large output side bearings & mid-case bearings are new. We're counting pretty heavily on the output side bearings in particular being new as they go for about $500 apiece!

All the synchros are supposed to be new. It looked like there was about a 1.5mm gap between the synchro & the gear which is about right for new synchros against a gear with it's cone in good shape.

One thing we knew about this tranny was that either 4th or 5th was from a newer transmission version & was noisey under light loads because it didn't match the gear on the lay shaft. Fix will be to use Pizzaman's 4th & 5th gears & their mating lay shaft gear pair. Luckily these were in excellent condition.

So later this week I"ll be looking the tranny over with a very bright light & magnifier. If everything still looks good, then I'll undertake another round of removing transmission ring nuts. At least this time I know which ones have LH threads so won't be driving them the wrong way!

 

I have this thread as one of my favorites, second from the 308 V12 conversion begins thread. Sorry Pizzaman.

I have not heard from Chris for awhile on this project. Any progress?

 

Is there still time to change that order? On the early 2v engines .360 lift is stock so it's proven safe. The more lift the better, I would not go less than that.

 

They will be much better than stock 2vi cams, but only 1/2 way to the stock early carb cams as far as performance. I bet they would be perfect for a car still running the CIS. You're car wil run great, no question there though. With carbs the milder the cam the smoother the engine, you're giving up some HP up top but you are gaining low end drivability so I'm sure you'll be happy.