NoDoubt, Can you read-out them chip`s and dropp them on the internett? I offer to burn fresh E-promms for the dutchies! Regards, Ben Holland
OK. Well, decide if you want them now, or if you want to wait until after you've made your exhaust changes and MAF resistance changes. I can mail them today if you like (just resend your address to me so that I don't hvae to go through all of my old PMs, please).
Truly an evil genius. Did you fiddle with the bits on your own, base these on some of the other chips, or use some mapping tools? Also, how are they working out in your car? Not to be the voice of reason in orgy of horsepower and maniacal mechanizaitons, but I'm assuming the advance and fuel modifications are well outside the range of anything that would cause detonation/high RPM misfire issues? In any case, thanks for keeping us all in the loop. Can't wait to see these in action. (P.s. Here's to hoping the redline surprise is enough leftover fuel for a nice flamethrower out the tailpipe )
Thanks to some help from an Fchatter with pro experience at such things, I downloaded the OEM chip maps and code, disassembled the binary code into hex/opcode, broke out the fuel, ignition advance, and coil dwell maps, and then used a Porsche 911 graphing tool to visualize the whole setup. Over the past two years I've posted a couple of threads, with pictures and graphs, so no need to revisit the gory technical details here. I have compared the Red Chips to my OEM 348 Spider chips and to the aftermarket TPS chips just to verify that all of the programming is intact and correct as well as that all of the fuel and spark changes make sense and fall within an acceptable range. However, if Vince uses the Red Chips without running pure 93 (or higher) octane fuel, then he'll be in trouble. Ditto if he doesn't adjust his MAF resistance below 375 ohms. There's no magic wand. If he wants more hp from a chip, then he's going to have to run less lean, with high quality fuel, and he's going to give up enough gas mileage to qualify for an all-new gas guzzler tax.
OMG!! no fender covers or anything!?! lol... how many zipper and jean rivet scratches do you have on your quarters now Vince? Just messin with ya's... thought i'd throw something out besides a pissing contest Seriously tho... this whole project rocks! And the Stooges rock!! I wanna be next! ND, do you have a 2.7 plug-and-PLAY chip mod that will make my car more funner without any other mods or upgrades required? or maybe just some simple cheap stuff?
Any chance to get borrow/purchase a pair of them for my 3.4 T Mondial? (2.5 Motronic, K&N, by-pass and Stebro): I've a dyno appointment on this coming Saturdday and it would be cool to test them.
ND, we are very interested in trying those babies out. I'll PM ya. We only get 91 octane gas in CA so you might have to do a "pink" set. I will only use them after I install the fuel filter upgrades (still need all the parts), adjust my MAFs and remove the screens (that will be tonight anyway). We'll do the exhaust with the stock chips, measure it then swap out for the "Firewand" chips. All this with stock injectors, eh?
Hey ND, If I have ready access to race gas 105 octane at the track can you make me a set of "super" red chips like "freaking crimson"? Can you just calculate how you change the curve or would I need to run a wideband O2 and send you data? I have 2 sets of ECU's so.... What is your guess as to HP/torque increase?
I could post the tables on this or another thread, but what I see are hex numbers. I have no idea how those numbers correspond to actual timing advance changes. For instance, at 1000 rpms several of the spark advance tables have a hex value of "20" for the OEM advance. By 7200 rpms most of the spark tables have hex numbers above "45". The aftermarket TPS chip bumps up most of those values by +4 to +10 (but the TPS guys must not have found all of the spark advance tables, because they only changed a few). I can put in larger numbers for greater spark advance, but I don't know "how much" advance you are getting with those larger numbers. So I can't tell you that "+15" is safe for 105 octane fuel. i can burn the chips and you can try them...just tell me "how much" you want to go. Of course, I can also change the shape of your fuel air curve. However, if you can get a decent fuel/air curve by just adjusting your MAF, then that's the better way (faster and easier for you to tune, less work for me).
The pink chips are making +17 on my 348 Spider compared to the OEM spider chips. That's with a little extra fuel and spark advance curves from +1 at low rpms up to +8 at red line. So it's a gradual increase in spark advance above and beyond the built-in increase already in the spider chips. I think that I told Vince wrong in a private email. I quoted him 288 HP rwHP on my car with the stock spider chips, and 313 rwHP with the pink chips, but it was 296 rwHP (indicated) and 313. Plus, the dyno that I'm using reads too high. The stock chips rwHP is probably closer to 270 or 275 rwHP on my spider (minimal mods like K&N and no MAF screens) and the pink chip rwHP is probably closer to 290. Image Unavailable, Please Login
6BAC[]: = f( Engine RPM ) *spark advance curve NOTE: the TPS chip bumps up each OEM value in this table +6 starting at 6BBE RPMS:800...920..1280..1520..1720..1840..2000..2520..3520..4000..4520..5000..5520..6000..6520..7240 VALS: 21....22....25......28.....2A.....2D.....31.....36......3D.....3F.....42......42.....42....41......3F....43
That Mondial T can do it. Yank the 4 wire mesh screens from your MAFs and drop the MAF resistance a bit (stock is 383 ohms between pins 1 and 6). Post up the fuel/air curve and the Stooges can screw you up, er, I mean, help you out. *also, be certain to have your oil temp at or above the 1st 1/4 mark to help insure that you don't do any damage during the tests.
I finally pulled the MAF screens and adjusted resistence to 365. The car runs - which is a very good thing. Thought I lost a MAF in the chaos of the plenum swap, but it was seriously knocked out of adjustment. Probably those potato chips Ernie dropped on the airbox assembly when it was out of the car. Ran the car tonight a bit and it seems a bit rich at idle. (Big revelation). I need to hang it out on the freeway and then take it to our friendly dyno for some numbers. Wily, don't get sucked into dyno output numbers as an absolute. Unless you have access to a very well dialed in unit, the numbers you see are only to be used as measures of relative gain or loss. ND's figures show that there is a power gain from his chips, but expecting 30 Hp at the rear wheels is a pretty tall order. That said, I am very interested in your numbers especially the A/F chart - make sure you get one. As a suggestion, you might drop the resistence to 374 or so before you do a run at 365. BTW, 365 is 5% lower than 383, and yes it's an arbitrary test point, but thought to be a safe one. Cheers
Dont worry: I shall not. I am trusting the Mondial to the Dynapack operated by Fernando at Competizione in Gaithersburg. We established a baseline a month ago, after changing the timing belt and installing a free flowing Stebro exhaust. We did not do an initial (before any modification) baseline as the belt was a bit old and the stress of the dyno might have had dire consequences. The baseline we have shows a max HP near 260 at the hub, which is not bad, but indicates a power dip in midrange (4000 to 6000) which I hope the new chips will fix. My AFR was very lean also, around 14. In the attached graph, baseline is the thick red line. The other thinner two lines are from another Mondial T. The fat line is what Id like to see: +15 hp at 5000 rpm Thank you all for your input. Image Unavailable, Please Login
