Euro v US spec - what's it worth?

While I imagine the answer applies across all models my question is specific to the 328 GTS. I'm looking some 86's with around 45Kmi, one of which is Euro. Ceteris paribus which spec and by how much more do you think one is worth?

Thanks for the replies.

 

Euro is often sought after, IF LEGAL importation has occured, across all models.

Prized for their light weight, they only downside is the same...light weight.

They have lighter bumpers and lack door crash safety beams. So if you are going Euro understand what you are getting and comfirm it's DOT and EPA Certification......so a Euro car usually trends BEHIND the comparative model, the dry sump 308 variants being the notable exception to the rule.....

 

Since I have a Euro 328 I am biased. I place a premium on the Euro

 

I would certainly pay more for a Euro in the States if it had NOT been modified to U.S. specs. However, for it to be legal in the U.S. it would have to be at least 25 years old to not have to meet safety standards and 21 years old to not meet emissions standards (I may have those reversed) so an early 328 could not yet meet both of those requirements. Not sure exactly how much extra I would be willing to pay but for sure a couple grand. Lighter weight, 10 hp more, better looking mirrors and turn signals (my opinion), less complicated engine bay, reduced fuel fire risk due to no cat. and fewer hoses going to the fuel tanks etc. (if nothing is modified to meet U.S. specs.)

 

I thought Euro cars were only NON CAT until 1980 or so.......all 328 should be catalyst equipped???

I agree about the added value from the performance stnadpoint, just trying to caution someone, if not familiar with the legalities what ownership will be like going forward.....

 

For Europe, I think 348s were the first with cats, at least in the UK (and presumably Europe).

 

BigTex, if you have a moment, would you mind emailing me?

utilityguy
@
gmail.com

Thank you.

 

This is my concern; what might I be facing? Seller got the car from a dealer in another state and doesn't really know much about much. I.E. he has no maintenance records so while I'm weary of that I will have a PPI performed by a very trusted 30yr tenured F-wrench.

What are the ramifications if it doesn't have DOT and EPA papers? Am I going to get blocked registering at NY DMV? Could the government one day show up and confiscate the car? And if they *could*, how realistic is that possibility? Not sure I'm willing to gamble, no matter the unlikelihood.

Finally, any idea if a detailed VIN check would reveal the DOT and EPA non/conformity (understanding and hoping of course that the work was done and then uh, fell off )

 

Well, that's really the issue, the lost paperwork, eh??? Funny how that happens..it'd be like losing your kid's Birth Certificate.....

You can verify with the Feds if your VIN is registered, and yea....conceivably a LOT of unpleasant issues could surface after you part with your hard earned cash......

Email sent, new guy.....

 

Euro 328's did not have cats. (except for the Swiss market). Ask me how I know :-(

 

My 1986 328 GTS Euro does not have CAT's. As far as US vs Euro...the Euro is a better buy in my option. Better cleanier lines then US Version....red bumpers, couple extra HP's, smaller mirrors, rear red lights instead of on the side. Currently my car has 46k on it so if you need to compare anything just let me know.

The car has all the paperwork from all the way back in 1986 but no GREEN CARD to get into the US, it was lost somewhere along the line, shocker. Carfax brings it up as having no idenitfication except that the VIN is a valid one and that it was DOT approved in May of 1986. Not sure how to do the research on getting a copy of the paperwork that was done back then, but if its been in the states 20 some years and hasn't been confiscate by the government then I would say if your looking at purchasing one then you might be ok. I'm sure todays importation of a Ferrari is extremely difficult given all the BS that the DEP, ATF, EPA, etc....has in place.

Mike (from Philly)

 

Thanks for the offer Mike, I may take you up on that, send you some pics for comparison.

I spent some time on the phone today and quite surprisingly very quickly got an answer from DOT about the one I'm looking at. If you're so inclined to investigate yours and want a record (not that you'd probably need it, at least not until you go to sell it maybe) call DOT at (202) 366-5291. I thought I took the guy's name - anyway call that #, tell em what you're after, and they can run your VIN and tell you right away. What you want to hear is that she 'conforms', that 'the bond has been released.' They'll also tell you where she ported which is kinda cool so you can take a moment and imagine her in a container getting offloaded onto the docks Or something. I learned that my prospect is clean.

They can send you a letter to that effect so if you ever needed it, you got it.

 

Great...thanks for the info. Actually I just bought the car about a month a go, so no need to talk about selling it. However, having the paperwork would be great for the car shows.

Here's my car http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=180673

 

Nice! PM sent...

 

The name should be Dick Merritt, I've been trying to get hold of him all week & he returned my call just after I initially posted this. Luckily the VIN I was checking was in the database!. In any case, thanks for posting the DOT phone # which is actually his Admin's #.

EURO FEDERAL RISK IS LOW:
I recently had a long conversation about Euros with a long time F* technician. He operated a grey market import business during the '90s until the EPA started requiring absolute compliance to every little nit in the regulations, even the ones that the us market versions of the cars weren't required to meet. Here's his take on '80s vintage Euros w/o paperwork:

Risk of buying an older Euro w/o paperwork is extremely low for all practical purposes:
1. DOT has no enforcement arm, have never been known to initiate action about a classic car that's been in the states. They count on customs to ensure DOT compliance at import time, & they stay on top of the companies doing federalizing.
2. EPA is spread extremely thin, they have more serious polluters to worry about. The EPA is only likely to get involved with a classic car if:
a) you get the feds po'd at you for some other reason such as drugs, a felony, tax evasion, terrorism, etc. then a federal agent might pull the EPA in along with other agencies they think should be involved.
b) Someone files a formal EPA compliance complaint against you.
3. The US international stolen car database only goes back 5-7 years, then is purged to keep it's size manageable. So if the car was stolen outside the country & brought in before 2000, it won't be in the database. However, it still would be in the Interpol database which never gets purged. Again, if you get the feds on your case, someone might think to check the Interpol database for the VIN.

Where you're more likely to run into risk is resale if the buyer or dealer is savvy.

 

Or if you try to sell the car into California...

A Euro 328 without papers won't stay in CA for long.

 

Yeah, I had Dick on the line but wound up getting the info from his admin the following morning. Gotta say, those DOT and EPA guys I spoke to (actually EPA is outsourced) were quick, helpful, and just a damn pleasure to deal with - polar-opposite my usual gov't entity dealings. If anyone needs the EPA # or wants to file it for future or a buddy, here's who you need:

:::::::::::::: HELPFUL CONTACT INFOMRATION ALERT :::::::::::::::::
Don or Dave (only two guys in the dept)
EPA Imports group 734.214.4100 (outsourced)

These guys can furnish a letter stating your vehicle is excluded or exempt from fed regs, which may or may not be helpful if your locality's regs are more stringent than Fed's. All you need to do is send Don a copy bill of sale and title to [email protected] .

And the savvy-buyer potential concern you mention is me in this case! I didn't want to buy a car I either couldn't register or have it confiscated. Not that I thought the latter was likely, just doing my diligence.