I'm new around here and I realize this is a little off topic about the value of a car but... 1) Why is a 50 state car a problem in California? (isn't it one of the 50 states?) 2) Is a euro car as easy to service? (dealers have compatible sofware, parts, et al.)
What a great car, I sure hope cars like this are around when I buy....probably next year..murph's law I guess. One thing though, I am so glad that there is so much experience here. I would never do anything without talking to you guys. Good luck with the sale. Jon
I understand your desire to defend your car. I'd be doing the same thing if it was me. Making a forceful argument in support of my price supposition. You asked for opinions about your car. I gave you mine. As a recent buyer in this market, I felt my research prior to buying was valid and would be helpful. If you don't like my opinion, that's cool. Put 'er up for sale at $90K and let us know how that work for you. I'd be thrilled if you got that much in the current market. I didn't mean to offend you, just point out what I see from a different (I don't own YOUR car) perspective. Your car has issues that would concern some buyers, just like the ebay car does. I think (again could be wrong) that your car will attract a certain type of buyer, the bargain hunters in the market and guys who aren't scared by resale value based on mile and the Euro spec car. That has to affect price. Keep us in the loop as to how it goes when you list the car. dave
+1 Please educate. Also you convinced me it's probably a great car, but still, the resale is problematic. This pricing issue is all hypothetical - please post something and give us a follow-up. I'm very curious about what you get. One other thought, there must be a more;pricing data with similar 355 out there - an appropriate premium over those cars might be a good starting point for asking price.
Realistically in my view the only real negatives to this car are the high mileage and the red carpeting. The red carpeting could probably even be overlooked by an excited buyer. The euro thing doesn't bother me at all. It does decrease the market value, but you save it on the purchase, and you give it up on the resale. Red is obviously a favorite color, although my personal preference is for TDF. I'd think you should list it on ferrariads.com for maybe $85 - 88k to allow for a little negotiation, and expect to get around $80-82k. BT
Actually, as former potential buyer it was my first prefrence to buy a car from the dealer...with the exact expectation that I would have to pay ~5k more. They have overhead that private sellers don't and I see this premium as fair. The way I see it Ferrari dealers live and die on their USED car reputation. New/nearly new vehicles tend to have warranties and take care of themselves. USED dealer Ferrari's (like my 6+ year old Spider) are where they HAVE to be on their game or the buyer/car will be a royal pain in their arse! After buying my car I discovered a shimmy in the steering at 80. I took it back and they replaced the front tires at a cost of $800 TO THEM and did a road force balance and now she is tip top! The bottom line is they want me back as a customer so they do what they can to make me happy!!! Peace of mind is well worth the price of admission...not to mention the "magic" of now being "on the list" Now, my second choice would have been to buy from a well known ferrarichat member.....but in my case my first choice worked out.
The point I was making for Euro in general, not necessarily with this car. This Euro issue comes up from time to time and I simply don't get the difference.
Euro means that you cannot title the car in CA correct? Arizona borders CA and that elimintate a lot of potential "drive the car home" type buyers...no?
No offense taken just making points the way I see them as a seller and a frequent buyer (after all I was once the buyer of this car). I know based on one previous attempt that the car is not going to pull 90K and that's no problem. thanks again DM
Ok now I get it...kind of...read here: http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=119479&highlight=title+euro+california
1. California has higher DOT standards which leads many importers to federalize cars for the other 49 states. To make it legal here generally costs $2,500 -$3,000 more and takes some time and hoop jumping to accomplish. 2. Euro cars, when new, had little or no warranty support from US dealers but since most warranties have lapsed, it's more of a non issue now.
I've heard a rumor that it is difficult if not impossible to obtain financing for the euro F-cars. Does anyone have experience with this or solid information? 2001 360 F1
This is true in most cases, some dealers though can get around this by working there bank reps...or if the customer goes to there own bank to obtain financing, and the banker knows no diffrent...
Most people I know who have financed their Ferrari's, have not used the car as collateral. Instead, they commonly opt for some type of a lein against their real estate, (ie HELOC, second mortgage, or a refi, with money out). Usually, the payments are lower monthly required, and are partially tax deductable. A side benefit would be that in this case, it doesn't matter if the car is a euro or not.
Most dealers will tell you that this is not the case...most buyers financing is done by the dealer in house...
What would you estimate the percentage of cash buyers at vs. buyers that finance these days? I am curious as I would intend to pay cash if I can find the right car at the right price. BT
80% finance, and it only makes since! Keep your cash working for you instead of against by paying cash for a asset that will lose money! I do not make money from financing some dealers do, but I dont...so to me pay cash or financing is just the same! Let me ask you this, you go in to see your investment broker, and he say to you "hey i have great this great deal for ya, and all it will cost is $200,000, but you lose 15% right off the bat!" What would you say? now with Ferrari you hopefully putting a downpayment in the deal to avoid losing eqity in the car over 5 year or more...so it makes since to keep your cash working for you instead of against you!
I am more of a simpleton. I look at the paying of a Ferrari with cash as equivalent to earning a rate of return that is equal to the finance charge. I understand the 360 is still on the depreciation curve, but a 2000 MY car still has retained about 60-70% of the original invoice after almost 8 years in use (although the use is obviously very light compared to other car brands). Most 3 year leases have buyouts that are around 50-60%, so a Ferrari in the same arrangement would allow a 2005 F430 to be bought out at lease end 'market' for around $140k today! The brand is clearly a leader in value. BT
I lived in California for a couple of years and heard of 49 state cars that would be trouble to register. I guess the seller meant to say the euro car is a 49 state deal.
Does anyone know what the differences are between a Euro and a US spec, other than the exhaust? I have a Euro 360 that was federalized by Amerispec, it was purchased from a Ca dealer but registered out of state for tax purposes and registration fees. (CA is raping exotic car owners, my 04 360 spyder was $1450 a year, my 2000 360 $60 for 2 years out of state) Ca dmv told me if it passes smog then I wouldn't have a problem registering here in Ca.
This is just my .02, ie not to start any arguments. It was mentioned some where above (i'm being lazy) that this is a modern Ferrari and euro or us spec matters, unlike the 50's to 60's cars, asumingly because these are pre safety and pre emissions cars, well also because of low production numbers. (let me know if I'm wrong) Here is the big question : Hasn't this come full circle? Ferrari's are produced in much more higher quantities now days. Does anyone know the exact number of 360 produced between 99 and 05? I'm willing to bet it was more than all of the Testarossa's produced in the 11 year span, posibably more that all of the 308's + 328's produced from 77 to 89. Now the Testarossa's and 308's and 328's were true "grey market cars" ie different exaust, different bumpers, differnet lights. But european countries are following suit with saftey and emissions standards, some are even stricter than CA. So like GM or Ford isn't Ferrari producing these cars for a much broader markets (producing left hand drive cars for multiple countries based on the strictest emissions and saftey, and the same for right hand drive cars) It does not seem to be cost effective to retool certain cars for certain countries.
