Suspension bolts - do they have to be this tight?... | FerrariChat

Suspension bolts - do they have to be this tight?...

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Peter, Mar 8, 2008.

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  1. Peter

    Peter F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 21, 2000
    6,430
    B.C., Canada
    #1 Peter, Mar 8, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    As I progress in my suspension/brake/steering/timing belt winter rebuild project for my 308 GT4, I got to the point of taking apart the rear suspension, in order to replace the bushings (front suspension removed from car, and old bushings removed from arms - no problems).

    The bolts (part# 106419) securing the rear A-Arms to the arm forks (these are the inboard joints) were tight, but came apart with hand tools.

    The bolts on the outboard joints (A-Arms to wheel uprights, part# 105344), especially the lower bolts were the problem I encountered and I can't figure out why. The top bolts came off with hand tools, again, no problem, but the lower bolt (and I should add, this was the same for both sides of the car) were in so tight, I needed a 3/4" impact wrench (which puts out approx. 800lbs-ft of torque) to remove them and even then, it struggled! I even gently warmed up the parts with an oxy-acetylene torch (being careful not to heat too much as the upright is cast aluminum) and it still gave me a hard time. I had to work it back and forth for several minutes before it finally spun free and was then able to extract it from the assembly.

    I was expecting the bolt to be covered in oxidation because of this incredible seizure (aluminum and steel don't like being next to each other!), but was blown away by the fact that the steel bolt was in perfect condition! So too was the aluminum upright! The only thing that was present seemed to be a tacky, gooey substance on the shank of the bolt.

    I've included in the below attachments a scan of an FCA newsbulletin article that was published in the '70's concerning a suspension recall affecting GT4's. My car was affected by this recall and I'm assuming it had been done, so what was done, did it involve having the lower bolts covered in this sticky substance?

    And if so, why? If you look closely in the parts catalogue, the bolt has no affect in suspension movement - as the inner bushing, part #109905 does this job - and therefore, cannot be worked loose from suspension movement so the bolt does not need to be "glued" in like it was. When I re-assemble, I'm not going to coat them with any kind-of sticky paste as I really don't believe they need anything like that (in fact, I'm a firm believer in using anti-seize on fasteners as I deal with stuff like this in my line of work. When used properly, the fastener stays together, but can be removed in the future!). It doesn't make sense that the top bolt could be removed with hand tools and the lower bolts needing a super-duper industrial-grade tool to remove and have a hard time doing it!

    When I recondition everything (painting, plating, etc), most certainly I'm tossing these old bolts and getting new ones as I'm sure they've been stressed from the 800lbs-ft of torque from that 3/4" impact wrench. Honestly, when I was working these, I was tempted to use a 1" impact (at about 1000lbs-ft torque!) to spin them free, but I was sure I would rip the heads off the bolts and then I'd be in bigger trouble!

    Thought? Comments?
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  2. ham308

    ham308 Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2003
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    NE Switzerland
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    Richard Ham
    Peter,
    I guess you were undoing the nut and not the bolt? The nut would be a lot easier than the bolt as the bolt would not have to unstick itself.
    Richard
     
  3. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Aug 10, 2002
    26,364
    socal
    someone used 271 locktite which breaks down with heat. the goo was the start of the breakdown due to the torching. you needed just a bit more torching and the goo would break down just a bit more and fasteners would have come right off.
     
  4. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
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    Dec 29, 2006
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    Tim Keseluk
    Good chance.
     
  5. gerritv

    gerritv Formula 3

    Jun 18, 2001
    1,400
    St Catharines
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    Gerrit
    Hi Peter
    There is no need for that bolt/nut combo to be that tight. Torque spec is 7 KgM. The goo is most likely old grease. On my car (which had been apart before) they had grease on those bolts to (IMO) ensure they did not seize up in the bushing over time. I greased them lightly on re-assembly.

    Gerrit
    http://dino308gt4.com
     
  6. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    Nov 29, 2001
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    Mitchell Le
    Mine was not that tight, IR 1/2 inch impact spun it free. Must have been the loctite on yours. I believe on Antisieze on the way back in.
     
  7. Peter

    Peter F1 Veteran
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    Dec 21, 2000
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    I was able to remove the nut with hand tools. The part that gave me the problem was the bolt itself.
     
  8. Peter

    Peter F1 Veteran
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    Dec 21, 2000
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    I did not want to lay down too much heat as I had said, the upright is aluminum and it doesn't take much to start melting things. Believe me, I've done it before...

    Even if I had gotten to the point of melting the upright, I can imagine it still would have taken some effort to remove. I stress, these bolts were in there good and tight.
     
  9. Peter

    Peter F1 Veteran
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    Dec 21, 2000
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    I am going to use anti-seize upon reassembly. I still can't figure out what this stuff was (to me, it didn't appear/feel like old grease) or why it was put there...
     
  10. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    Nov 29, 2001
    12,661
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    Full Name:
    Mitchell Le
    Come to think of it Peter, I did have problem with the long bolts. I had to spin the bolt with the IR 1/2 impact gun, and beat on the other side with a hammer to get it to come out. Did not need a 3/4 inch gun though.
     

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