83 QV vs. '79 GTS --just drove both

Whew! This li'l doggie's been BIZ-EEEEEEEEEEEEE!! I flew out to phoenix yesterday to drive a 1983 with 38 miles. Now, I should mention here, much to my chagrin and with no small amount of embarassment, I did not ask the current owner about service records before flying out, Aside from my own stupidity, one reason I didn't is that the current owner owns an English car restoration/repair shop and he IMPLIED that the car was absolutely lovely and needed nothing. Now...the car is very nice, a few bits of curb rash and chips on the wheels (16" by the way) and the driver's seat head-rest needs a little work, but, overall, I'd consider in a very nice driver with a very, very nice paint job. Driving impressions? Well, I really do love QV's, and this was was no different; they have just the right amount of rawness and power, yet are a little more livable than the carb cars (my impression on that lovely little entity next). I think the brakes might need a little work, as the car seems to pull a little left-to-right under fairly heavy pressure. The engine sound was tremendous, replete with that fabulous popping exhaust. Without boring you fine gents senseless, I decided against buying the car (even though I got them down to 37K) for the following reasons: As mentioned, no service records, except some fairly extensive valve work and such totaling 5K about five months ago; and the car is owned by two business partners, one of whom is an affable enough though rather slick English bloke, and the other ******! There was just a lot of BS floating around about their backgrounds and, in the end, I just didn't like the one dude in particular, and wouldn't trust either enough to sell me a can of tuna. I made some real mistakes on this little endeavor, namely a non-refundable deposit to hold the car until I could get out there to see it, not asking more definitively about service records, and not tying down a more definitive price. So...I lost a 1K deposit and $250 in air fare but, oh well, you live and you learn. At least I didn't buy a car and blow a t-belt and I've learned from my idiocy here; idiocy that I already KNEW to avoid and, yet, i did it anyway, which, of course, makes it that much more idiotic. LOL! Okay...next review...

Went out to Plam Desert today (luckily, only a 50 minute drive and approx 10 bucks of gas) and drove the 1979 GTS that is currently advertised on Ebay for a laughable 45K. After thoroughly drubbing the guy via email about his ridiculous price of 45K, I went out to the desert with a more modest range of 33-35K in mind for what I hoped would be a nice car. The car itself is in reasonably good shape. The paint is nice, though it has a good scrape on the passanger side from the current owner playing with his garage wall (1 or 2 vodkas, sir?); the interior is okay-to-good -- some minor wear/cracking of the tan leather but no tears; dash is good with no cracking or shrinking and the targa top is nice, too. The engine bay is where, to me, it gets a little dicey. It just looks a bit too dirty in there --- some of the rubber (not on the hoses) is in pretty bad shape and overall, it just doesn't look as kempt as a well-cared-for 34K mile cars should. Supposedly, the current owner had the major done 3 months ago, and there were some good service records and the current onwer is supposed to have more (his friend is selling it for him on consignment at his very small botique dealership). Now...the drive: If you fellers have read any of my other posts, you'll know that I recently checked another 79 GTS where the owner would only take me for a ride and not let me drive the car! This was much better --- I was able to take the car out BY MYSELF! Very cool of this guy to let me do so. After I got the oil temp up, the fun began. I basically, though repsectfully, hammered the **** out of Enzo's little child and Enzo's little child and I thoroughly enjoyed it!! The only real difference I notice between the QV and the carb car is the slightest amount of hesitation upon acceleration in the carb car, and it's only occasionally, not all the time. The QV is a little faster, but the carb car, once you get in 2nd, 3rd, and 4th will certainly put a wide-ass smile on your face. I.e. it ain't slow. As far as the sound is concerned...forgive me "carb guys" but I really think the QV sounds as good. I mean they both sound fantastic, but I really can't even discern the carb induction noise over the wind and screaming engine. The handling and breaking of the two cars seemed quite similar, though the carb car had no "brake issues" as described for the QV. I love both cars but will not be buying either: the QV for the aforementioned reasons, and the carb car because...well...no offense to anyone else who might think otherwise, but I hate the rims on her (another 2-3K added top the purchase price to replace them --I'd rather just by a car with rims I like), and, again, the engine bay leaves a bit to be desired. I could PPI it and make my decision then, and the gent did make me a "liveable offer" if everything checked out, but I really think I'd like to stay with a QV if possible; I think they're more liveable (they start easily ---hopefully) and I like to drive in the mountains around Southern CA and I fear "carb issues" if I start playing around at 4K feet and above. So...there's my more than two cents. As always, I look forward to all of your astute and helpful comments, and I hope you are all doing well. Thanks for reading.

My best,

Scott

 

Bobileff has two 308/328s here in San Diego.

http://www.bobileff.com/ferrari_frame.html

Yellow is a good color on 308s: He has a low mileage '78 that looks pretty well kept.

Also a red 328 that would be a good 'driver', although it has an '80s car phone/antenna that would dissuade me.

 

Very entertaining post Scott........
It must have taken you quite a while to type it so once again, thanks.....Enjoyed it immensely.
Regards,

Bob.

 

Truly a nice write up. (Since I wanted to read every word, I hope you'll use paragraph breaks next time.)

I think you've pretty much hit on the differences between the two 'types' of 308s. The Boxer world has the same essential dilemma - carbs or injection, with each camp touting the benefits. No room for that debate here, but "livability" seems unanimously slanted toward the injected car, which was my reason for same.

The aesthetics of the earlier cars is a little nicer externally due to the bumpers, but a judgment call. On dark or black cars, hard to say it makes a tremendous difference.

When you mentioned the first car, (the QV) did you mean 38THOUSAND miles? (Your post says "38 miles"; just checking.) Good luck in your search, keep us posted.

 

Interesting comparison.

I have a QV and my exhaust doesnt pop, mine has the stock exhaust. Wonder why that one did? But my QV has the infamous "308 whistle" that I have yet to correct.

Scott, did you know the 79's are rated the same HP as the 2 Valve injected cars (80-81)? I've never driven a 2Vi car, nor a later carb car, but thats what they say here on FChat.

Sorry you lost money, but you're doing the right thing. The more experience the better. I didnt do that much research, and well, I lucked up because my car is exactly what I wanted. However, you're doing the right thing, especially with asking prices in the ridiculous ranges as you stated.

Last thing, as I've stated before, buy the best car you can. However, I will caveat that dont let a few little things bother you. You're not going to find a "new" 308 unless you wait for Newman to finish his. Just make sure after looking at several you have set the correct expectations. See thread: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=151028

Honestly, we need to make a sticky or reference to your posts. I'm sure they will be useful for the next guy in 6 months that gets on FChat to say "I want to buy my first Ferrari, which one should I buy".

James in Denver

 

Great write up Scott and I hope you soon find the 308 of your dreams. I always knew that an 85 QV was what I wanted and I drove three of them before finding the one I bought. It was worth the wait because it was far and away the best of the bunch. Best of luck to you!

Paul

 

I like your writing style actually. Reads just as you'd speak.

nice job.

 

84'-85' qv's are the way to go, if you want an injected car. They are great fun and have all of the refinements, rust proofing, no air pump (like 83's) and are so reliable.
Mine might be available in May, I have to wait for better weather to detail and finish it up.
Mine doesn't suffer from the brake pulling probs, has new F1 tires, exc paint, mint OEM wheels, mint seats, FULL records, toolkit and OEM spare wheel-tire, 2k miles since timing belt service etc.
PM me if you want more info and pics.
Good luck with your search, that's half the fun !

 

You have been busy!
So you met someone in Phoenix that you wouldn't buy a can of tuna from? Living there for four years, it seemed like that was everywhere. There's no way I'd buy a car in Phoenix. I've had the experience. Just finding someone reputable that wouldn't take you for a ride was a pain in the azz.

Good luck on your search. It's just a matter of time before you find the right car.

Jim

 

Hi fellas,

Thanks for the great comments and kudos, as well as the positive words of encouragement. Also...sorry about the lack of paragraphs; I know it makes it a bit hard on the eyes; I'll keep that in mind the next time I write a novel...

Jon, thanks for the heads-up on Gary B's cars. Though I would prefer a QV, I might have to take a little looksie at that fly yellow GTS (I love fly yellow) The price is right and I'm sure it's a great car if Gary's had his hands on it. The 328 is a bit out of my price range, I fear. Interesting about the 328's...in pictures I think the 308 looks better, but in real life, I think the 328 may actually be better looking, since it obvioulsy doesn't have those freakishly large U.S. bumpers and such.

Then again, I may have to hold out a bit longer and re-consider the 328 thang. Oh, decisons, decisions! BTW...interesting about the AZ comments. I didn't know it was a meca for "questionable" transactions, so thanks very much for the heads up. Okay..gotta go, fellers. Hope you all have a fab Sunday.

My best,

Scott

 

Hi fellers,

Me again...I just wanted to ask: what does one do with a carb car if they want to drive up into the mountains from a sea level setting? Also, yes...the QV I reported on had 38K miles, not 38. Okay..now I really gotta go.

Thanks,
Scott

 

Aw, gee, Jim, now you've hurt my feelings. -Steve

 

Scott,

I purchased my '83 GTS in early December '07 from Forza Motorsports in Gaylordsville, CT.

They had my red 308 and a yellow '77 carbed GTB that looks to be very decent on the website. However, I was turned off by the cheesy (from my POV) aftermarket wheels on the GTB and the absence of the original ones from the inventory.

The GTS was an exceptionally nice, totally original, 20.6K mile two-owner car with fully documented ownership/service history and nothing missing. I went with it over the GTB.

You might want to check the GTB out; I'm honestly amazed it hasn't sold yet.

Forza owner Peter Sweeney is a real gentleman.

http://www.forzamotorsports.com/

 

Hey Wazie, FLY308 on this board has a nice 83QV GTS for sale at a reasonable price. Would be worth looking into!

Cheers!

 

Hi Scott and Dino GT4Guy (and everyone else),

Scott, Thanks for the advice on the 308 GTB. I've actually spoken to Peter, too (great guy), and, unfortunately, that car has no smog equipment on it, which would make for great fun in CA. I agree, not too keen on the BBS wheels. However, I do love that car!

DINOGT4 guy, Thank you for the suggestion. I believe that 83 QV is in Portland, as I questioned him when he had it on Ebay. It needs a major and he wants approx 34K for it. It is a very nice car and I have thought about making a move on it but...

BTW, one thing I forgot to mention in my earlier thread is that the electricals on the Palm Desert GTS are...well...laughable --no turn signals, no horn, no windows, etc. In other words, Ferrari perfect!!

After a little time to digest the last couple of days, I have come to the conclusion (duh) that i am only going to "visit" cars that are being sold either by very reputable dealers/mechanics, or private sellers with very strong "Ferrari affiliations" --- you guys, FOC members, etc. There are just too many "questionable" individuals or delaerships out there looking soley to move product. I REALLY appreciate all your guys' help in my search and I look forward to our future chats together.

My best,

Scott

 

Scott : those "freakishly large U.S. bumpers" can be shortened a couple of inches, I have the brackets to do the front and the 2" spacers can be removed from the rear, it gives the car the Euro look but still emissions compliant. It's on my to do list, many here have done it already, huge improvement.

 

Mine have the bumber modification and looks great. IMO of course!

 

Nice candid and informative post, Scott. I appreciate your stream of consciousness style. Try to experience some test drives in early (1977) GTBs for a true perspective on the carbed variant.

Barry

 

Hi guys,

James, thanks for the link on others who bought Ferraris and what was initially wrong with the car they purchased; I'm not an anal guy (not saying you or anyone else here is!) but I do need to keep in mind that virtually every car is going to have flaws.

Barry, Would love to drive a 77 GTB! If I could only find one "close by"!

Scott, Thanks for the tip on the Euro conversion for the U.S. spec bumpers; I'm aware of the kit and that would be one of the first things I do upon purchase

Cordially,

Scott

 

There could be an early GTB closer than you think, Scott. I was originally looking for a QV and the last independent dealership I visited had an '84 and '85 for me to test drive. During the second drive, I mentioned that I really liked the carbed GTS I had tested several weeks before. We went back to his place and he let me test drive his 1976 fiberglass GTB which he was considering selling. I drove it that day and that's the car I purchased. Sometimes things work out that way. Good luck in your search, Scott. You'll find the right car, that's for sure!

Barry