When did "they" start putting computer chips in cars?

Don't go back too far to avoid electronics. Just remember, electronic ignition is much more reliable than ignition points. I painfully recall when my electonic ignition failed in my 1974 Boxer. However, these units did not contain microprocessors.

The microprocessor was invented in the early 1970s. I have been hearing advertisements by Toyota about their cars having more microprocessors than the Apollo spaceship's had during the manned moon missions. Well, yeah, the Apollo craft had zero microprocessors, they had not yet been invented. So if a car has one processor, it is infinitely more than the old Apollo craft.

Ken

 

They had Bosch Jetronic fuel injection, I was quite unfortunate to have worked on one or two. I also had a 70 or 71 Saab 99 once that had the same system. The interesting thing was they had no air flow meter. Just a big pressure transducer that plugged into the manifold and the throttle position sensor. Engine speed was read by a wierd set of points in the side of the distributor. The early boxes were usually mounted up under the dash and had a mixture control knob out the side. And they wernt cheap, a blown box was over $1700 in the early 70's.

 

+1
many of the new cars still have dipsticks, but now they're seated behind the wheel.
Rgds,
Vince

 

A couple years ago they upgraded the Space Shuttle fleet to glass cockpits they upgraded the five onboard computers with 386 processors. They were originally using the 286

 

Very true, but when faced with a dead ignition on the side of the road, we use to use the sand paper from a book of matches to clean the points.

With an electronics degree, and a carrier in broadcasting & electronics, there is no way to roadside repair a solid state ignition

 

Some of the very early solid state ignitions had a switch so you could go back to the regular points and coil if the transistor burned out. Yes, they had points - they just used them as a low current switch to turn on & off a transistor to get a bigger current pulse than was safe for mechanical points.

I remind you again that while there were so-called electronic fuel injection, "computer ignition", etc. way back in late 60s and early 70s - these were NOT microprocessors.

I am sticking with the 83-84 time frame for first real use of the microprocessor in cars.

 

+1 -- the early systems being more a collection of analog and digital ICs rather than a microprocessor as you said before. My foggy recollection is that we didn't even get 286 desktop PCs at work until something like '86~'87 (and this was at a fairly large and forward-looking company). I'd also add vibration as one of the real challenges that they've had to overcome to add all the electronics to vehicles.

 

From Intels Museum,

1971: 4004 Microprocessor
1972: 8008 Microprocessor
1974: 8080 Microprocessor
1978: 8086-8088 Microprocessor
1982: 286 Microprocessor
1985: Intel386™ Microprocessor
1989: Intel486™ DX CPU Microprocessor
1993: Intel® Pentium® Processor
1997: Intel® Pentium® II Processor
1999: Intel® Celeron® Processor

 

Excellent reference - from what I remember about those days: 4004 was really a sort of demo chip, it was only 4 bytes wide. The 8008 was also somewhat limited in that it did not have a general purpose stack - the 8080 was the first practical one and was what came in my very first Altair computer kit in early 1975.

Prior to the "microprocessor" as "invented" by Intel - there were a few chips called "microcontroller" - I think the Signetics X300 was actually ahead of the 8080 and very similar in operation. It went into a number of Techtronix graphics display terminals.

Other manufacturers included Motorola and Mostek - the 6800, 6801, 6809, 68000 family of chips - in many ways the BetaMax of early processors - superior in concept, but lost out in popularity. They were used in Apple computers 68000x until recently, when Apple too went over to the dark side. If I can remember right (in my old age) the 1984 Vette had a 6801 processor in that instrument package. (I actually took mine apart a couple of times when it lost its mind)

Remember that all of these were ridiculously slow compared to the PC of today - megahertz rather than gigahertz and only 2 to 20 megahertz at that...the early ones being the slowest.

One other minor point of this ancient nerd history was that the very early chips needed well regulated muliple voltages (including a +5, -5 and +12) which were not easily available in a car without power inverters, etc...so - to the point of the thread. They would crash easily if these supplies had spikes or lows in voltage.

My rather old-fashioned viewpoint nowadays is that these devices were a great automotive advance, but you can go way too far with them, like anything else. I don't have any use for them to replace your dipstick or even to adjust your airconditioner or radio through a joystick like BMW and others want to do recently.

But then, I don't have any use for paddle shifted transmissions either, so probably have already lost our younger generation of enthusiasts.

 

OK, if we're going down the "old timer" path - You've got to remember Zilog and their Z80 - The *fast* version ran at 4mhz [Standard was 2mhz] - Then they came with the Z8000 (16bits!) - My wife wanted to get me the kit, but couldn't afford all of it - So she called 'em and asked if she could have "10 or 12 bits for now" and "he'll buy the other bits later"

[In fairness she never did claim to be any kind of geek.]

Cheers,
Ian

 

Yes of course! Z-80 was the basis of the old CPM operating system, (slightly extended 8080 instruction set), and arguably led the way to the IBM PC and dear old Bill Gates fortune.

I actually met Ed Roberts (Altair designer) in person at a club meeting for Altair owners...and complimented him on how he brought out all the lines on the 8080 right to the S100 bus for future expansion.

Ed replied that he really had no idea what some of them were for (like the interrupts or the DMA provisions), so he just put a tristate driver on them and put them on the bus. Hoping that somebody else would come along and figure out something that they were good for! What a great guy!!!

 

I'm with you...somewhere between a car with a tube type radio and a processor for the cars operating system. I almost said a crank start car, but I didnt want the old timers here to hate me.

 

Volvo: Wife lost keys twice, each time about $300 to replace key remote and key. cheaper to let them steal car... or ????

 

I have a fleet of Ford Explorers for our news department, I have over and over suggested to the department manager that he have spares made and hold the originals.

We are constantly in trouble with car keys here, and it's very expensive and dosen't need to be

 

Exactly!

Legend has it that when IBM were looking for an OS for their soon to be launched PC they went to the CPM guys ("Digital Research" if memory serves) wanting to license it. The main guy wasn't there (he was out flying his plane, and didn't like the suits from IBM) - IBM were pi$$ed and swore off doing any business with DR. They then went to Bill, who convinced 'em he had an OS - It was in fact something he'd purchased - "QDOS" - "Quick and dirty OS" - And that eventually became MSDOS.

Sorry for the history lesson - I liked CPM.....

Cheers,
Ian

 

Nope-not demo, a real live, first ever, computer chip, came into existance for calculator use, I engineered one into an X-ray product around then. Many digital products of the day included either the 4004 or the smaller, cheaper 4040, not included in the summary. For controlling, one doesn't need more than 4 bits. Program assembly was done by hand and transferred to punch cards for the ROM manufacturer. ProLog in Monterey came out with popular controller cards and programming techniques wherein hex code was now punched in by hand. Progress was fast and furious as everything had to be digital for marketing purposes. Pong was analog and analog was dead. Anyone know what an Hewlett-Packard model 01 is?

 

I have a better question....why did you wait until 2008 to check the oil

 

Paul_308,
You beat me to it. In 1970 I was designing circuits for DEC & had samples of the 4004. I was in DEC's industrial control group at the time. GM was a major account. IIRC we knew that GM research was trying 4004s in prototype engine control systems.

While the 4004's main data path was only 4 bits wide, it actually could effectively concatenate results & was a true if limited computer. Too bad that while the intel crowd are great circuit designers, to this day they've never gotten their computer architectures really right. Of course Gates & co haven't helped with their sadly lacking OS architecture either.

 

Last as in end of production? I think it may have been the '89 Caprice that still had the GM electronicly controlled carburetor. I"m pretty sure that ECU system was analog. Never saw any details, just an impression from how dumb it was.

 

That's what I get for being a smart a**...a good answer! [and a funny one at that] LOL!!!

Don't feel bad...I couldn't get my 308 to start after a fuel hose replacement project...forgot to connect a hose below the plenum...just plain missed it.

 

Those first Intel development systems were Octal, weren't they? 303 000 000...jump to zero???

 

Bill and the remaining gang were members on the team that helped create the OS and were not the leaders. When the head of the team opted to leave, he let Bill and gang bid for the rights to the OS [can anyone say Stupid IBM move] and went from there. But, IBM made many stupid moves in the early years. gotta hand it to MS, they were cut-throat savvy in the marketing game.

 

Because the heading of this post is "chip", and not processor, the bosch D jetronic in the 1967 VW 1600 TL would be the first car with a "chip", albeit a tiny one and was an analog computer. Under the terminology microchip and digital computing, the Bosch L jetronic in the 1974 Porsche 914 would probably be the first that was at least semi digital, though according to the Bosch website it was available in 1973. Many believe it contained the HAL-9000 chip as they seem to have a mind of thier own. The first fully digital microprocessor programable control is most likely the Bosch Motronic, introduced in 1979. Many believe these were actually built by Cyberdyne systems for thier abilty to cause mutiple running issues with no notable cause.