Nissan GTR vs. 430S

Good for you....

 

Did you guys see the latest R&T? The GTR spanked the Z06 and Porsche TT on the track, all driven by pro Steve Millen. It's not a car I would consider myself (AWD and 2 pedals) but it's clear after reading that it could spank my 430 coupe. The Scuderia could be a different story, it would be fun to see. Unlike some of you guys with the red mist, this does not bother me. The 430 was at or near the top of the food chain when it came out 3.5 years ago. I knew it's performance would be surpassed by lessers before long. I owned a Subaru STI for 3 years and had no trouble reeling in 355's with it on track day. does that me it was more fun or cooler than a 355? Of course not. "Bang for the buck" and "Ferrari" should never be used in the same sentence.

Dave

 

997 TT, 997 GT3/RS, F430, Scud, Z06, ZR1, etc. . . and now the GTR. All lethal cars near the top of sportscardom.

No car is perfect, and each brings to the table a compelling story to 'buy me'. Straight up performance is only part of the equation. After all, none of us earns a living 'racing' any of these cars, or doing endless slalom runs or doing 1/4 mile drag races. In the end, cars are about the entire ownership experience. Last I checked, I don't drive a spec sheet; my choice in cars is based on how they make me feel, behind the wheel and when washing it early Saturday morning.

Look at it this way, the astonishing performance of any of these cars is difficult to use on the street w/o ending up in jail, and for track use, those with enough seat time migrate to a purpose built car. So, what we are really talking about is a sports car that is enjoyable on the street. Buy the one that brings the most enjoyment!

If its the Nissan, more power to you. But the Fcars, and to a lesser extent, the Pcars bring certain intangibles to the table that are absent in the Nissan.

That said, I really want to drive one and look forward to seeing them at the track.

 

That Nissan dealership needs to get a janitor - somebody **** in the middle of their showroom and put a Nissan (Datsun)
tag in the middle of it!

 

You guys are kidding right - I put that car alongside the PACER for ugly of the year contest!

It probably has GREAT perfomance - but it is SOOO hard to drive with that paper bag over your head

Mark
F430 - the best
GT2 - next to the best

 

In person or in print -- ugly. It's a terrific car, but couldn't they have made it LOOK terrific?

 

maybe underestimated, but definitely overrated

I think the GTR is kinda ugly, but hell I drove an Evo so obviously I don't have a problem with ugly I guess. And the weight... my god, to me the WEIGHT is the biggest problem. It weighs more than a loaded moving van.

But really, I think I have read the term "resale value" in this thread 58,000 times... its getting obvious to me that there are F-owners who buy there car to flaunt their wealth or status, or who buy there car with a bean-counter attitude and then there are the rest of you that actually buy your car because its a badass car that is fun to drive, makes you feel good , etc.... the last group I have a lot of respect for. I think that is cool. I envy you.... and you guys are part of the reason I still am considering becoming an owner.

But the first group is no different than a kid in the ghetto wearing big gold chains or the ricer kid with the 4ft wing and 12 inch diameter exhaust tip on his civic... just out trying to impress somebody. And the second group are no different than the middle age penny pincher buying ANOTHER CAMRY or ACCORD because they hold their value... You are just playing the same game but with more money in your hand, that's all.

 

If I am being honest with myself...the original post does make a great point.
a point that is worth revisiting.

How much of the purchasing decision of any car...heck, anything... is based on emotion. Perhaps all buying decision are based on emotion. If I were to be super honest with myself
about Ferraris, Porsches etc they are mostly bought for how they make you feel. Ego.

Seriously, is the GT-R worth $70k....maybe not. But, is it worth $70 compared to a $300k Ferrari that has the same or lower performance
numbers?

We buy expensive stuff because its SOLD to us. In the belief that we will obtain the qualities that buying that product (or service) promise.
Its pure marketing.

Ferrari is able to sell cars that (on paper) are equal to or less than other cars that cost far less because of marketing.
We are in a day and age where technology and manufacturing have made the gap between a **** product and a high end luxury product almost nothing.
Ferrari etc needs to move their game on and fast.
The GT-R is a rule changer.

 

Ouch! Didn't mean to ruffle your feathers or anything. A simple reply to a simple thread. Nice 599, by the way.

 

Scuderia vs V-spec GT-R...........seeming like an awesome match. (ofcourse, the duo are light-weight streetracer!)

Looking forward to it!!

 

Let's talk resale:

I bought my 430 coupe (stick) in 8/05 for MSRP. with taxes, registration, etc. it cost about 190K to put on the road. Since then, I've driven it 10K. With insurance, registration, service and one set of tires, I'm probably into it about 200K now. I figure I would be lucky to get 180K for it if I sold it. That's about $2/mile at best not to mention the lost income on the original cost. If someone had bought it in the aftermarket for say 230K, well, you do the math. There is no getting around the fact that modern Ferraris are EXPENSIVE to own.

Dave

 

Steve Millen has a vested interest in the Nissan winning. He used to race for Nissan and now he sells parts for Nissans and Infinitis through Stillen.

I'm not trying to take anything away from the GT-R; I have one on order (or at least, I think I do)- just wanted to provide "full disclosure".

 

So you lost $20k in 3 years and 10k miles(on a $200k car) and you think that's "expensive"??!!
How about you try a normal ,inexpensive car,like Porsche or BMW or MB?
Drive one of those sub $100k out of the dealership and lose 30% instantly.

 

When I was driving around a parking lot in a first generation Toyota MR2 in the mid 80s, a guy in a parked truck said to me, "$20,000 for an ugly car." Although it was an insult, it was true to some extent.

Now the GTR is in the same predicament. However it costs serious money, and is not the bargain small sports car that the MR2 was (it was actually $12,000). To me, even if it performs 10 times better than a Ferrari and costs ten times less, it is much too ugly to consider. That truck driver would be proud of me this time.

 

For all around performance, and performance shock value - I would take the GT-R over the F430. For those arguing over technology comparison between the F1 derived Ferrari and the God-Knows-Where Nissan tech - IMO it's a hard to say which is better. Given the mission I don't think Ferrari can build a 4 seater with the performance number like the GT-R, at least they havn't done it.

For styling and looks, the F430 wins hands down. That being said base on design alone I would take a GT-R over a 911 GT3. (sorry, never been a fan of the Beetle frog style) Then again I would take 246GT Dino & Testarossa over the F430. I would say that the big ugly GT-R front bumper bothers me as much as the rear end design of the F430. (and unfotunately the Scuderia rear end is not any better than the F430) I can buy a 246GT, a Testarossa, and a GT-R, they will still be cheaper than a F430 Scud.

A sigh of relief to the supercar kingdom - AT LEAST THE GT-R IS UGLY~ We are quickly running out of excuses.

 

when you go out street , if you can find one girl who prefers GTR to ferrari, i am buying free GTR.

thats all exotics about, look best on street , go good on track.

anyway i am looking to buy a gtr too, so i can park my fast car to street without thinking what happened to it unlike ferrari.

 

whats hilarious about this gtr is that... most likely... and many sites have been saying/hinting/rummoring is that the press gtr's are ringers... and that Nissan is known for doing that... so get your GTR and see how it compares...

Also, if you look in all of these magazines that are doing testing... check out the the numbers past the bull**** 0-60 time. THe gtr falls on its face in comparison after 60 miles per hour. The car is behind the z06... behind the 911 turbo... behind just about anything that is comparable. Look at its 1/4 trap speed... not just the time... its mile an hour is WAY down... that car comes out of the whole hard... and then just looses steam. Likely due to the small turbos that all the magazines are praising for having no lag... but in reality they are really costing the car on the big end of the speedo.

ALso, most of the tracks that i have seen in the mag. comparos is rather tight tracks... yes... AWD will win in this case...


Id take a 430 scud over 4 GTRs any day of the week... id take a 430s over a 911 turbo and a gtr... id take a 430s over a gtr, z06, and a 760li... LOL

 

First of all, resale value. Who gives a **** ??? I doubt anyone buy a Ferrari for the resale value. You buy it based on emotions and the strong brand name.

The GTR looks like a piece of ****, period. I´m pretty sure it sounds like **** as well compared to a CS or Scud.

Sure it´s faster on track, maybe, then the Scud. For sure then the CS, which is very strange tbh, it´s soooo heavy. Anyway if I wanted a really fast car for track that is cheap as well I´d buy a Radical and drive in circles around the GTR.

Imo GTR is a car for people that either can´t afford a Ferrari, Porsche or Lambo or those that can afford both or all of them. I would never replace my car for a GTR, maybe has it as a daily driver.

BTW I had a nissan 300ZX 1990. It was back then a fantastic car. Performance wise close to the top cars of that era. Still it looked nothing compared to the 348 or Porsche Turbo. Great bang for the buck though.

 

Have a GTR on order to replace my daily driver and a Scuderia due soon, which will be a 2nd car for sunny days/weekends/trackdays.

Chalk and cheese, as most smart car folks will understand without explanation.



P.S. The 35 GTR is nothing new really, as R32, R33 and R34 GTR's before on similar theme. 12yrs ago I had an R32 GTR with 440bhp.

 

Load of bull, the Evo Magazine GT-R's were both private import from Japan and they tested it a lot faster than both Z06 and Turbo around the track AND 0-100-0 speed. They were not press cars.

Hard time believing in the cars potential? Read the whole thread, lung7707 has a GT-R and says it's faster than a F430... Hear it from someone who has the car...

The tight track arguement doesn't hold up. The car weighs a lot. If it was a Lotus Exige that spanked a F430 on their track your arguement would be: "It's so light and compact yadayada not fair" - the car holds up with its competition around the Nürnburgring and that's enough said. I think it's a engineering masterpiece when it outaccellerates cars weighing less with less power than them. Lotus knows their stuff and Nissan has a bunch of motorsports experience too, don't forget about that. And don't forget about NISMO.

 

Resale value keeps the riff raff out of the market.

When was the last time you saw a leased Ferrari with spinners & 20k miles between oil changes?

 

Are u implying that those who buy a GTR, which have a poorer resale value compared to a Ferrari... are riff raffs?

 

I can't emphasize enough that this is just my very humble opinion. I even typed that out just to emphasize that.

But I feel like many of you naysayers that are seemingly hating the GT-R because it is a cheaper new sportscar with excellent technology should embrace it. The GT-R and cars like it are what are going to push Ferrari to give you even more bang for your buck. The ability to thrive off of competition is what seperates good companies from great companies and Ferrari has always come through on this aspect, this is just one more step that they have to take.

Also, and once again just my opinion but what the hey. Those of you that insult the GT-R for having a lower resale value are getting far too wrapped up in money. I understand that Ferrari's are an investment for some, toys for others but holy channukah. The motivation for you to buy a vehicle shouldn't be if it will hold its value unless you are truly a collector.

Best Regards,
Ethan