Interesting view point GM vs Ferrari

This thread posts some interesting view points, and of course it always comes down to peoples personal preference and financial situation. There are more cases than not with corvette owners that would rather have a ferrari instead, but for finacial reasons they had to go with the vette. We also have to remember that at some point in time ferrari owners obviously passed on the opportunity to purchase the corvette. For whatever its worth I have had the privaledge of spending quality time in both of these types of vehicles, and to me the corvette just doesnt have the same effect as a ferrari. Corvettes now a days just seem to blend into the background along with Ford Mustang GTs, ETC. You are constantly being stared at in a ferrari and for most people the attention makes them feel great. People buy sports cars for the exitement factor and all the bonuses with driving an f-car makes it that much more. Anyone can throw a big powerfull engine in a car and make it go fast, but they will never have the history and class that comes with owning a ferrari. Dont get me wrong they are both great cars, but alot of people that stand behind the corvette are in the back of their minds wishing that maybe someday they will be able to get an f-car.

 

People are knocking GM build quality over superior Ferrari build quality as if it has always been and always will be a universal truth. But, my gt4 was only 8 years old when I got it and it was a worn out used car with just 30K miles on it. Even with GM's bad performance in the 70's, no Vette would have been in as bad of shape with the mileage and time. Both are great brands, both have great history, and I hope in a few years to have another used Ferrari and a new Vette in the garage.

 

That's quite debatable, there's a great likelihood a 70's Vette left the factory in worse shape than your 8 yr-old GT4.

 

Possibly, but the dentist down the street's 77 Vette gave him few problems that i am aware of and still runs well for him without ever going through a real restoration with well over 150K miles on it now.

His leather seats however, never smelled as good as the Ferrari's.

 

I love how it takes Dodge and Chevrolet some 6-8 litres to do what Ferrari basically does in 4.3 litres. One is F1-inspired technology, the other is a "let's go to the drag strip" mentality. American cars have always been brutal straight-line perfomers; Euro cars are built with winding roads in mind. Sure, the Zo6 may put up the numbers --- skid pad, latteral acceleration, etc. but I guarantee you that if you were to take an F430 and a Zo6 on a winding road, one of the drivers, thoir skills being equal, would be white-knuckling it a hellava a lot more than the other as they pushed their cars ever harder. And it wouldn't be the guy who had spent more money. And the guy who had spent more money..well, his car would also be sounding about 500 times better, as well.

 

Ferrari can make a 500hp engine with a 100k mile warranty only using 4.3L? Interesting.

 

The comparison is totally fair. The more Ferrari becomes like every other major manufacturer/faceless corporation, the farther Enzo fades into the past, the more of us old timers that fade away as well, so too will the Ferrari legend.

The original poster is right. And you're right: The Vette can't touch the F430...because the F430 is too far behind the Vette! (No, I've never owned a Vette and own several Ferraris but denying the truth is simply silly.)

Road and Track figures for both:
0-60 Z06 3.4 / 430 3.8"
0-100 Z06 8.0 / 430 8.8"
1/4 mile Z06 11.7 @123.7 MPH/ 430 12.0 @119.6
60-0 Z06 111FT / f430 114FT
Lateral G z06 0.99 / F430 0.94

 

Really? How much were F360s when they first came out? And now what are they worth? What will a 360 be worth in two years? Reality: These modern Ferraris depreciate more than the total purchase price of a Z06.

 

When I was 6 years old I sat in a 308GTS it was blue with tan, I remember that day as if I was just there, I wanted to own a Ferrari from that day on.

I have sat in many vettes, couldn't tell you when I sat in my first one, nor what colour or model it was.

For me, it is that simple.

You can go faster for less money, but that only matters if that is what you are looking for.

 

Let's think about this for a second. The most important things about an engine are its outputs, the total package, is that fair to say? The ZO6 outputs 505hp and 26 highway mpg. It weighs 458lbs and although I didn't find exact costs, crate LS7s are about $16,000. The Ferrari 4.3 outputs 490hp and 18mpg highway. I couldn't find a weight for the 4.3 or a cost. Some one can add that if they know.

People always say that American motors are too big and underachieving, but if you look purely at the output side of the equation (the important part), American engines are on par with engines from anywhere else. Technology for Technology's sake doesn't make any sense. It just drives up costs. The LS7 is internally bigger, but it makes more power, more torque, delivers far higher mileage, and costs far less as well. So why does this condescension exist? Is it just anti-American bias?

 

no, but it's worth it to pull up to the restaurant!

 

Best post here.


Although I will say the hemi technology is NOT better than pent-head technology, the nature of the Corvette's engine allows it to be very compact and very lightweight and still produces the type of output that exceeds people's expectations


And for a 7.0l V8, the LS7 engine revs all the way up to 7000 RPM. That's pretty darn good considering all NA Porsche flat-engines except for the GT3 rev only to 7200

 

It works in percentages not in actual $$$,'99 360 had MSRP around $145k ans is still worth about $90k (38% loss),'99 Vette had MSRP around $42k is worth what?$12-15k?
Still ,Vette lost less money in actual number but that's not the point,since people who bought 360 did not cross shop it against a car 1/3 of it's price.
It's like comparing a Hyunday Sonata to MB S500.
In another 2 years '99 Vette will almost disappear (maybe becomes a Classic??),since most of them will end up in junkyards,while the 360 will still hover just below $100k or more.

 

Have you priced a 60's vette now? Some of them hit a half a million dollars or more.
I think its safe to say that the vette WILL NOT end up in a junk yard.....quite the contrary....due to its hardiness it will likely out live most any car.
The new vettes are a fantastic car. And the price is excellent as well......new or used.
The aftermarket or reproduction parts availability will ensure these cars will live forever.
Have you checked the parts availability for a 328? Getting pretty slim. Next to follow will be the 348 and so on and only the rich will be able to keep them on the road. The rest of the cars will likely be brocken up for parts in time.

Having said that I will keep my 355 . Not because it is exclusive but because I enjoy ALL performance CARS.......and this includes Vettes, NSX, Porsche, & Ferrari.
Before you bash the competition may I respectfully suggest that you test drive them first......maybe even rent them for a weekend ....then and only then will you have an opinion that is based on solid ground and not just on bias.

p.s. the 360 cost 250g new in CDA and now you can buy them from 130g (and dropping).....thats close to 50 percent depreciation ......
.......the 1999 vette is now worth in CDA 28-30g and would have cost new 55g......again the depreciation is similar to the modena.

 

has a power to weight ratio of 5.4 pounds per horsepower, same as the new Corvette ZR-1. All other vettes would be eaten alive by the scud hands down. The new ZR-1 weighs much more than the Ferrari F430 scud, and the scud will eat it on the track, no doubt, better tranny, brakes, all of it... Also Ferrari produce 118bhp per liter in a normally aspirated engine whereas the vette get's 100bhp per liter with supercharging.

There is no doubt the vette is the best car for the money on the market but there is also no doubt that all of GM can't compete in the real world called Formula 1 and with that no matter what happens in the morning when you wake up, it's a Chevy....

BTW a Z06 is not competitive at all with the F430 scud... Thinking so is a childs fantasy...

And no chevy is competitive with Ferrari in formula 1 which is why Ferrari is in business in the first place... I would love to see the day when GM can get 900bhp at 19000rpm from 2.4 liters of V8, but then again, I know it will never happen... If Ferrari wanted to, they could out do GM at any time. It would seem Ford was dumb enough to waste over 100 million dollars back in the 60's to race Ferrari who spent 22 million in the same time and still won a majority of the races....

Quote: "The Ferrari 4.3 outputs 490hp and 18mpg highway"

Answer is wrong, the 430 scud puts out 510bhp at 8500rpm with 4299cc, which is 262 cubic inches of normally aspirated engine. The Corvette is 427 cubic inches.... There isn't a chevy made that puts out 118bhp per liter... BTW, technology wise, the Chevy is a much simpler engine, it doesn't have variable intake height and all the other tricks the Ferrari does, not even over head variable valve time for both intake and exhaust...

So the answer is yes, Ferrari puts out 500 hp with 4.3 liters and it comes with a 4 year warranty...

Quote: "because the F430 is too far behind the Vette"

Answer: The 430 Scud blows any vette into the weeds on a good twisty road, even the new ZR-1... In a drag race, something that takes little to no driving talent other than a quick toe, the Vette might win, but after that, no way...

Statistics:
The Scuderia has 510 hp and 2775 pounds or 5.44 pounds per horsepower
The new ZR-1 Corvette 3400 pounds, 625hp, which equates to 5.44 pounds per horsepower, same as the Scuderia.
Z06 = 6.2 pounds per horsepower....

 

Not to doubt you, but I have yet to see real tests on a variety of tracks (both high speed and low speed ones) with the ZR-1, so do we know this, or are you making an assumption?? Unless you have proof of this I would choose my words carefully. I would think the Scud would be a better track machine, but I reserve judgement until I see some numbers from more than 1 or 2 tests.

Again, Since GM does not participate in F1 (the fan base in NA is not worth the effort and expense I would imagine, plus they would likely take years to come up to competitive levels) that's another assumption. There have been some excellent Chevys over the years and a few really crappy Ferraris, so let's not be too judgemental

The new Chevy HHR SS puts out 130 HP per liter. Granted, it uses forced induction to do it, but the statement you made is incorrect. I know what the meaning of your statement was, but still, remember a GM fan will glady slam you for the quote, not for the meaning you were trying to convey. Also, Honda has had a 120 HP per liter car engine in the S2000 with NA far before Ferrari got close to that level on a NA production car as far as I can recall, so it's possible for companies other than Ferrari to make a reliable motor with very high specific output.

Did they up the warranty for 2008? I thought it was 3 years warranty, it was on 2007 models IIRC.

Again, I still am waiting before I make that statement. As far as drag racing. It does take talent. I would agree not the same level as road course racing, but still it's not a sport for the brain dead, especially in a very powerful car.

 

I'm pretty sure the Scuderia is 220 pounds lighter than a standard F430. Wouldn't this put it closer to 3000 to 3100 pounds? There is no way it is only 2,775 pounds.

 

I love it when we all spout off numbers.

LS7 makes 505 hp and 475 ft pounds of torque (at 4800 rpm). Scud makes 510 hp (at 8000+) and only 345 of torque. (The LS7 dynos more like 550/500 in the real world, while Ferrari motors have a tendency to be lenient in their rating).
I have heard it said... horse-power sells cars, torque wins races. I just know that in the real world, big torque is a big pile of fun

I would think there are 4 parameters to a good engine: usable power/torque bands, weight, fuel consumption, size. Overall displacement doesn't really mean anything unless it affects one of these things. The LS7 is a different style motor primarily because of it is a pushrod motor. You can call it old tech, you can say it doesn't have variable this and that, but the lack of 4 bulky camshafts and all that go with it means it is lighter (with a lower center of gravity) and smaller than a similar OHC motor. In the old days a big motor got crap mileage, but today that is not the case. So it is just a different way to skin a cat, nothing more, nothing less.

But of course the Scud motor is more exciting. Most of this has to do with the flat crank sound track and the way the entire package is put together... the motor is enhanced by the transmission and Ediff that complete the package. The scud is like a lot of things at the pinnacle: if you have to ask, you wouldn't understand.

Oh, and someone mentioned the ZR-1 brakes... remember that the ZR-1 has power to weight with an Enzo, except the front brakes are off the FXX and the rears are the fronts from the Enzo. Would I rather have a scud? Hell yeah (I'd rather have a 355). But I think it would be a fricken hoot to nail those 16 inch CCB's at 170 of the back straight at VIR!

 

Check wikipedia and the official stats... It's listed at 2775....

http://www.***************.com/car/3285/Ferrari-430-Scuderia.html

Listed there and many other places...

As for the other GM comments... I used to race GM cars, 68 Camaro SS 327, 11.97, 132 in the quarter at Bandimere here in Colorado and I also raced snowmobiles (Arctic Cat ice ovals ) and now race karts for fun. Drag racing takes very little driving talent compared to F1..

If you watched the top drivers in the world compete this last year at wembly stadium you'll remember that not one american driver made it to the finals and even all the NASCAR guys got their butts handed to them.

http://www.raceofchampions.com/

Schumacher wasted Jimmy Johnson so bad it looked like Senna racing a quadrapalegic two year old.... Scott Speed couldn't cut it, was a third rate F1 driver on his best day and the best we had, Sebastion Bordeaux is 3rd rate in F1 on his best day of life...

I agree that Chevy with a turbo or a blower can output Ferrari in hp per liter, but it's close then and the comment about Chevy doing in a production car first, okay, might be true. I find it interesting that Ferrari can put out 900hp with 2.4 liters and Chevy has never done that....

BTW, the new corvette wouldn't even be competitive without the technology exchange the did with Fiat as that is what made it a fast car. Ferrari helped Chevy develop a lot of their performance pieces for the corvette, including brakes, transmission, engine, all sorts of stuff.... As well all know, Chevrolet/GM can't compete in F1, don't have the knowledge nor the talent to do so. So when you drive your Corvette, remember that it's really a poor mans 550/599 and in every vette their's a little bit of Enzo making you look good.

When it started!

http://www.eurofound.europa.eu/eiro/...it0004151f.htm

GM's money used to buy Maserati and Alfa..

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/a...p?t-11455.html

And then GM wants out!

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...51C0A9639C8B63

GM to continue to pay Fiat for engineering help and co-develop existing platforms..

"Both Fiat and GM will continue to support the joint development of existing platforms. "

http://www.maseratinet.com/MCI/maseratisold.asp

GM co-developing V6 horsepower with Fiat for other cars as well as Ferrari makes the best V6 horsepower, thanks to Dino..

http://www.autofieldguide.com/articles/0301chev.html

Engine/Powertrain co-development::

http://www.thecarconnection.com/Auto...173.A8121.html


As for Ferrari building some junk, geez, look at GM from 1974 until 1989 or so, all they built was crap and that is why Toyota has overtaken both them and Ford as the worlds number one automobile producer... In fact they still build crap, again that's why Toyota is kicking them in the dirt. Who do you think has produced more junk over the years? Consider that GM has made millions of crappy cars and there haven't been a million Ferrari's made well I vote for GM being the king of junk. I quit buying GM products about 15 years ago because they stink so bad....

As I said earlier the Corvette is per dollar the best buy in performance, but it is again a dime a dozen and a car everyone can own.. It's kind of like the difference between owning a Patek Phillipe and a Rolex (Corvette).... Once is a work of art and the other is an everyday piece of machinery.

BTW if torque wins races, why is Ferrari the F1 world champ when the Mercedes 2.4 liter V8 out produces the Ferrari 2.4 liter V8 in torque by 40 foot lbs??? The Mercedes has the longer stroke and uses Tungsten alloy in their rods and pistons to take the 19000rpm beating......

 

IMO...for normal people like me (and non-enthusiasts alike), seeing a ferrari is far more rare and exciting both in audio and visual in real life than seeing a corvette, whether it be a c6,zo6, etc...

thats kind of a good personal reason to why someone would get a ferrari over a corvette

 

because hp per liter is a useless metric?

 

This information was from a previous discussion here...

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=175082&highlight=GM+Ferrari

The thread speaks for itself..

I didn't say horsepower per liter is a useless metric... GM may have done 130hp per liter with a non-normally aspriated engine it in a production car first, Ferrari have had it in race cars long before GM did it anywhere.... My other point was that Ferrari pretty much matches chevy's assisted engines with their normally aspirated engines... Of course they should be getting better since Ferrari helped them built the new vette....

 

Got any pictures of that wife???

 

You can't really compare a Vette to a Ferrari. Apples to oranges.
But the Vette is one of the greatest cars ever built hands down. It drives great,Great MPG, low maintenance. I've had two Corvette daily drivers. A 1992 and a 1999. My 92 I put over 156,000, I drove the hell out of it across country. Never did any real maintenance to it. I changed U joints($200), Starter($150), Brake pads and rotors($250), Plugs and wires ($100). My 1999 I drove accros country also, drove the hell out of it. I did nothing to the car except oil changes, brakes, and spark plugs.

A Vette doesn't really excite or get the heart going like a Ferrari. A vette is not exlusive, but it is made to be comfortable low maintenance and practice.

A Ferrari is made to have better lines, a nicer sounding engine, not practical, expensive to maintain, and exclusive.

 

i'm confused now. i know you didn't say that; you are trying to hold hp per liter up as evidence of Ferrari's greatness. i am the one claiming hp per liter is a worthless metric.

yes and ferrari has been using GM's magnetic shocks, so what? maybe ferrari will also pick up on the LS7 which makes it a far superior engine to their 4.3L as well ...

J. Salmon summed it up pretty well in post #93: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=137724994&postcount=93

the f430 has many advantages over the vette, but engine performance is not one of them. the LS7 is widely recognized as one of the best engines available today.