Beast from the East?

Depends on who is driving. And how much boost you cranked in.

Go ahead and worship the ugly duckling if you must, I don't think it belongs in the gaggle.

 

Looks are subjective, but fast is fast. If the 7:25 time is legit, I doubt even an Enzo could keep up with the GT-R V-Spec on the 'Ring.

I've seen the GT-R in the metal. It certainly doesn't have the beauty of an Aston Martin Vantage or Ferrari 355, but it does look bad ass.

 

Uninspiring looks for a GT-R. It looks like that last Toyota Supra Turbo that outperforms Ferrari but nobody bought one. Frankly, I would have preferred they stick to the old body of the GTR and just make it drive fast. I would buy that. I saw that one on I405 in Costa Mesa and it sounded and looked so good it almost took my breath away. Almost, but not quite took my breath away.

 

I guess after saying what I did (and I still stand by it) - that it might be of interest to the GT-R supporters to know that I have owned from new one of the last of the 240SX two+two seat coupes. It is a 1998, the dealer found it for us after the production was already in sunset.

It was very much the case of the car nobody wanted when I bought it. My step-daughter was ready for her first new car (she learned to drive on an old old automatic 84 Vette that we had around). She wanted me to pick something out, and she wanted a manual transmission (on her own). She learned to drive stick shift in this car.

To me, the 240SX had the right stuff in this price range. It was very good-looking, it had decent sized 5-bolt wheels and tires, it had a practical interior, and it was one of the few rear-wheel-drives in this class at the time. It has been a GREAT car - Viola has 72,000 miles now and it has seen her through law school, internship, and her first important job.

What she tells me now is that she can hardly get it washed without the carwash guys asking her to sell it to them if she ever trades it. They all want one of these in good condition now to turbo-drifter because of the looks and rear-wheel-drive.

So, I am glad that Nissan is keeping it's hand in to the sporty-car game. I just wish they could make something a little lighter and better balanced. I doubt that anybody in the real world cares how fast it can do the north loop on slicks.

 

Well, the GT-R is for those in the real world who do care. The GT-R is an insanely high performance vehicle that was designed to excel at tracks like the Nurburgring. A machine that beats the 911 Turbo there is impressive enough but they also gave it the comfort and practicality of a daily driver. ****ing wow.

Personally, I don't think the GT-R will be a success by taking away buyers who are considering Ferraris and Lamborghinis. Those cars might be a bit slower but they've got style and the appreciation for beautiful exotic cars won't be lessened by a supercar from Nissan. And I don't think that was Nissan's goal.

But consider this, out of everyone you know, what percentage actually has the capability or desire to purchase and maintain a $200,000+ car? Yeah... and out of the 99.5% of everyone else, there are plenty of 30k-50k people who will be tempted by car that outperforms million dollar exotics for just a little more money. What's an extra 20k come out to in monthly payments over four or five years? Pay 40k for a run of the mill Lexus, Benz, or BMW that will certainly be a good car but it'll be just like everyone else's and forgotten in a couple years. But the GT-R, no, the GT-R is legendary.

Your average working class man won't see the practicality of an exotic or even a Corvette but a 4-seat, AWD, dependable Nissan? I mean, picture the husband whose wife is pushing for a mini-van or at least a family sedan although he longs after the performance power of the Corvette. Enter the GT-R; you've got a happy man.

So I believe Nissan's strategy isn't to lure buyer away from cars like Lamborghini, but to nudge up the much larger demographic of people who never thought they'd pay more than 40k for a car.

And the few of you that can afford it, you'll buy the GT-R AND another exotic, won't you? Yeah yeah, lucky sobs lol.

 

Seriously......

a) Front bumper design is ugly I'll give you that. (I actually like the grill opening, but the bumper itself is pretty bad)

b) It's heavy, but it's way faster than 99% of Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Corvettes.

c) So theoretically if we need to beat a GT-R at the track, we should have a 100mph running start? Good idea

d) Weight distribution is shifted to front to increase out-of-corner balanced stability. That's Nissan's philosophy, and it seems to
work out nicely on the GT-R. (Again, it's performance is better than 99.9% of the cars with 50/50 weight distribution)

e) Unfortunately the GT-R is also faster than most supercars in REAL WORLD conditions

f) ..... consider it's 300-600lbs lighter than either the Corvette and Porsche is saying A LOT about the engineering in the Nissan

g) You keep mentioning 'Real world performance'? Maybe you need to clarify the term more - driving to the grocery store or cruising on 95 freeway real world?

h) Want to bet?

i) Actually Nissan forged the numbers by going offroad on Nurburgring and bypassing a couple of hairpin turns and thus saving about 15 seconds per lap. It's AWD system allows it to drive over grass, sand traps, trees and fences.

j) Ugly... I remember a lot of people called the Enzo ugly until they saw the performance numbers. I actually think the GT-R design is less controversial than the Enzo.



I love the Ferrari for its sexy design, engine sound and its ability to make you go above and beyond to get into one. As far as performance, engineering and technology is concerned though - I think Nissan is currently in a league that didn't even exist before. I would never buy a GT-R over a Ferrari, but I will give it A LOT of respect instead of b1tching about how ugly it looks all day. We are not in love with Ferrari for purely performance reasons, so there is no need to be so defensive over this new age supercar.

 

Since when are Ferraris not about performance? Sorry, I don't want a sculpture, I want a really fast car.

 

It's not ONLY the performance. Surely all of us would gladly take a F355 over a Subaru WRX STi.

 

Never is a long time...

 

Wow, it's amazing how much the GT-R is stirring the pot on car forums! It's fun to read all the discussion, but ultimately it's rather pointless. People buy different cars for different reasons. I can afford a GT-R, but I choose to get a 355 instead. I just simply like it better (looks, sound, interior, 6-speed vs paddle shift, etc). I don't need 480 hp on the street. I had a modified Mustang Cobra that made about 500 hp--it's basically useless unless you go to a track. Before I could shift out of 2nd, I was already exceeding every speed limit in the area. It's fun for sure, but I'd rather have a fun weekend car that I can row through the gears on the back roads and enjoy the music it makes. I know how big my schlong is, I don't need the fastest car on the block to prove it. Plus I wanted something that was a little more rare (not sure how many GT-Rs they are planning on making). I also prefer RWD to AWD. I find RWD cars simply more fun to drive. Oh, and I think the GT-R is ugly with a hideous interior. But some people think it's awesome looking, so it's all subjective. Some people are going to get GT-Rs and absolutely LOVE them. More power to them, it's all about choice. How boring would it be if everyone had to drive the same car?

I don't know how much it will affect Ferrari. They seem to be in their own little world nowadays. It's not like any of their later model cars have been breaking speed records (599, 430, 612, etc). Sure the Enzo was fast, but not really any more so than a 10 year old McLaren F1 (and also a very limited production car). They have been more about putting technology into their cars than trying to grab headlines with world records. Of course, considering the GT-R is 100K or more LESS than a new Ferrari, it might cause them to think about it. Some of the posters here are acting like the GT-R is some sort of technological breakthrough. It's not--it doesn't really do anything new. Turbos, AWD, paddle shift, and stability control programs are nothing new. It just does what it does really well. AWD is a great way to make your 0-60 times look great to the average car magazine bench racer. The people that will get a GT-R and want to prove that it's faster than a Ferrari just don't "get" Ferrari's, just as some Ferrari people don't "get" a $70,000 Nissan. There's ALWAYS something faster. To each their own. I honestly don't see a whole lot of potential Ferrari buyers being swayed by the GT-R. People that are putting down over 200K for a new car typically want something that is more exclusive than a Nissan. Call it pretentious if you want, but it's true.

 

What's an extra $20,000 in monthly payments?!? A hell of a lot to anyone buying a $40,000 car! I'm going to guess that most people that are spending $40K on a Lexus, BMW, etc., probably aren't going to be able to afford financing another $20,000 (or don't want to). Twenty thousand is a BIG price difference, you're talking about a completely different market. If your theory were correct, GM wouldn't sell any regular Corvettes because everyone would just go ahead and finance the extra $20,000 for a Z06.

I didn't see where you're from, but the GT-R isn't legendary in America. Maybe in Japan, but not here.

 

I can say just 'ROTFLMAO' to the Nissan. Nissan? Get real.

 

You need to get real and get a life.... signing up on a forum just to sprout your ignorant clueless bull**** like alot of the bench racers on here. The only difference between ricers and alot of people on here is that ricers have no money, they both however are ignorant. Most of you on here are poseurs who are not car enthusiasts, dont work on your cars and have probaly never done any sort of high performance driving/track-day. The bottom line is the GTR is a fantastic car that is very very quick for its price and weight. The GTR most definetly has soul, the "GTR" has been around since the late 60s, sure it might not have been designed by Pininfarina but thats not what Nissan had intended. Alot of you need to get off your high-horse's and realize that cars dont have to be made in Germany or Italy or cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to be "soul-stiring". The Japanese have made many memorable cars over the past few decades, you can talk all the **** you want but really, if they are that bad why are they so popular today, why are MK1V Supras sell for almost what they cost new, over 10 years ago, why did EVO magazine name the front wheel drive Integra Type R in their 10 best cars of all time list? Why do so many people race Mazdas and Hondas every weekend? All you people are getting so butt-hurt because a heavy AWD car from Japan is out-pacing practically everything out there

 

You can't drive a Ferrari and fully enjoy it every time,certainly not here in Chicago when the weather turns nasty (seems like most of the time lately).
I am getting GT-R for those days so I can have 90% fun of the Ferrari and 90% of it's performance regardless of what Mother Nature has brought us.
That "Nissan" is at the moment the most perfect daily driver you can get....

 

Boy I thought I was getting old. My daily driver is a 480 hp supercharged 04 Mustang and that car is a barrel of fun. I leave for work every morning at 5:00am for a 28 mile high speed run to work. Most fun I have ever had on a drive to work and I am 55 years old.

 

Oh it was fun, but it was kind of frustrating... It's hard to find places to open up a car like that without being at the track. I was just ready for something different.

 

They are not cars from the same era.

 

Sooo much to chew on here Chris... You must be young if you are "inspired" by virtually ANY Japanese car. Other than the Supra you mentioned and in my view the 300ZX from '90 (till when '96 or '97) and the NSX (a knock off of a Ferrari in the first place) there are NO "inspiring" Japanese cars, Good cars, yea, even GREAT cars, but inspiring does NOT come to mind when I think Japanese car. GTR's are virtually UNKNOWN in the US...only video gamers would recognize one or even care about them. The new GTR is BUTT UGLY! Capable it may well be, but in the world today there is NO REASON to go out of your way to make a car that ugly. The previous gen GTR looked WAY better than this current car. Of course everyone has their own idea of style and beauty, but I sure don't see much of either in the new GTR. To each his own.

Shame on anyone who does not take their F-car to the track at least once in awhile. It is good practice for the driver to get closer to the limits in the relative safety of the track environment vs. being surprised and maybe even write off the car on the streets. You can read all you want about car control, performance driving, and handling but until you put hands on the wheel and make it happen it is just theory. Hook up w/ your local Porsche club if your F-car club does not do track days. Us Porsche guys love to see you F-car guys come out and get your cars dirty.

Why do people race Mazda's and Honda's??? Chris, you ever priced them??? DIRT CHEAP man! It is NOT because they are such great cars; it is because they are CHEAP to buy, CHEAP to repair, and CHEAP to drive! HELLO, wake up and smell the coffee on this one. There are also TONS of spares if you want to go used, or whatever. Do you think they would be racing Mazda's and Honda's if they could afford to be racing Porsche and Ferrari??? HELL NO!!!

BTW, your last comment... No one who owns or buys a new Ferrari or a new Porsche is cross shopping a GTR. They are looking for a true icon of performance cars, something that looks as good as it drives and has panache, style and class... The GTR can not now, nor will it ever have those things. It maybe be the fastest, best handling thing on wheels, but it still will NEVER, EVER be a Ferrari or Porsche.

Oh, I was the fastest guy on track yesterday...small group though only about 30 cars.
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Japanese are good at taking a great car and making it even better. Look at NSX back in the 90's. It woke up Ferrari and now we have a 360 and 430. GTR is doing the same thing to 911 Turbo. I am sure Porsche will take GTR as a wake up call and make even better car. This is good thing.

 

All i can say is the Nissan GTR is all hype right now.

Oh look it put up some great numbers at the N-ring WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW! and it seems like thats all its great at doing and you know to me the performance figures at the N-ring doesn't prove **** to me cause the truth is not all race tracks are the ring and all drivers are diffrent not everybody is gonna put those numbers up. The Truth is the car still looks plain parked next to any exotic, iam so far not impressed with what I see in the interior its no diffrent from the G35 in my opinion and the price hmmmmmmm? there's so much out there I can do with 70k than waste it on another Nissan. Don't get me wrong I will end up owning one in the near future but I just don't see whats the big buzz is all about this car. All it did was put up decent numbers at a race track in Germany and now everybody thinks its god-like.

 

Fair point that the Nurburgring is a unique track. GT-R also put up great numbers at Buttonwillow, easily beating Z06 and 997 Twin Turbo. In the UK, GT-R also outperformed GT3, M3, 997 Twin Turbo, R8 on the track.

 

I ususally don't wade into this stuff but if there's a backlash to the car, it's because the hype is just so ridiculous. In the case you cite, for example, the driver of the cars was Steve Millen who stands to profit by selling GT-R bits. No conflict of interest there.

A guy named Jason Rhoades called Road and Track out on their web forum. Jason won the MX-5 Miata Cup last season. He's no Corvette fanboi. His point was simple: it really makes no sense that a GT-R, with LESS hp, less tire, and 800lbs more weight, would be FIVE seconds faster than a Z06. It just does not compute. Five seconds is an eternity on a 2 or 3 mile track (they used BW #13 not sure which direction).

An editor actually responded. Eventually, he admitted that Steve did not drive each car to its limits but to "similar" levels, whatever that means. In other words, it didn't "beat" the other cars, Steve Millen just drove it faster.

So, on the one side, you have the GT-R fanbois, slurping up every steaming pile of "journalism" published about the car. On the other, you have the butt-hurt Corvette guys. Objective observers, especially those with racing experience that extends beyond Gran Turismo, side with the Corvette guys. The Porsche guys seem to stay out of it.

It's all quite irritating to someone who simply likes cars.

 

1:56 around BW #13 is really hauling. If you think Millen wasn't driving the Z06 properly, you can reference the Car and Driver track test from a while back that included the Z06 and GT3 using the same configuration. In that test both cars clocked times in the 2:01 range:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparison_test/coupes/hardcore_comparison_test/(page)/1

Do you know anyone that has lapped BW13 in a stock Z06 at anything close to 1:56?

 

People may not prefer the look of a GTR to a ferrari. But read the articles, Nissan set out to design and build a quintessentialy japanese car. The styling is original to japan, maybe a little techno, but at least it is not derivative.

Evo magazine in the Uk which is all about the emotion and driver enjoyment you get from a car, be it a fiat or zonda, raves about the GTR.

See it in the flesh, subtle it aint but agressive it is. On a styling stakes I would say it is every bit as in your face and ugly as a 599. A v8 vantage or Dino it is not. But it is a statement to 21st century car design.

See it in the flesh and it has that special something, you really just want to get in try it out and see what it will do, this is the same effect a ferrari proche gt3 etc have.

Yes it is way too heavy, that is where the money was saved. Realisticaly though we have been living in an era where turbochraged awd cars such as subaru STI and EVO have arguably been the best performance cars on the street. The GTR takes this formula to a new level. If we think a ferrari with a paddleshif is OK because it is new tch and the car is so fast it needs it, then by the same logic there is nothing to complain about with the Nissan.

20 years from now the Nissan will be a classic, seen as the car that broke the mold and threw down the gauntlet. I am not so sure about most current porches or any number of ferrari pose cars.
Lets face it between the zo6 and GTR extreme performance has been democratised, and yes these cars are not just about numbers, they have feel and finesse too.

Personaly, very few of the moderns do it for me, too bland to drive below 9/10ths pointless on the street, and all save the zo6 scuderia or gt3 are way to compromised to really drive hard on the track. Maybe the nissan like the others just mentioned can straddle both sides of the fence.

One thing for sure with the nissan badge, if you buy it it is because you know what it is, understand and appreciate its performance. No one pays 70+K for a Nissan to pose, This means the GTR may be the true entusiast car of 08.

And yes it is too heavy.

 

I was following the thread on Road and Track.

http://forums.roadandtrack.com/cars/board/message?board.id=Reader&thread.id=138

But I believe the editor when he said,

"When I first heard the results of the GT-R test I had a similar reaction you did. That of "no way" is the GT-R 5-seconds a lap quicker! Having the resources to look at the collected GPS data I proceeded to explore what happened. Turns out the GT-R has better tires and the AWD technology to put them to use. Lots of other factors, but I assure you Steve didn't hold back in the Z06. Nothing in the data would suggest that. The fact that the 911 Turbo and Z06 ran nearly identical times is as expected from all previous testing of the two cars."