Suspension Rebuild Begins...And then some | Page 3 | FerrariChat
Buy

Suspension Rebuild Begins...And then some

Discussion in '308/328' started by jimshadow, Mar 16, 2008.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

Page 3 of 5
  1. jimshadow

    jimshadow F1 Veteran
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Feb 19, 2006
    6,239
    Indiana/North Carolina
    Full Name:
    JIM
    #51 jimshadow, Mar 27, 2008
    Thanks Todd!

    Well, tonight I got the last of the mounting pins out and cleaned up the brackets and my work area. I started on the A-Arm bushings and unfortunately, my new press is a little too small for the lower arms. I don't want to bend them up, so I'll probablly burn them out, we'll see. I'm about 1 day behind my schedule as I wanted to have the parts to the powder coater tomorrow. Looks like Monday as I'll have all day Saturday to work. (The girls are out of town.) :) Hopefully the weather is nice.
    No pics tonight (I'm posting some in the owners section...) but more to come here soon.

    JIM
     
  2. jimshadow

    jimshadow F1 Veteran
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Feb 19, 2006
    6,239
    Indiana/North Carolina
    Full Name:
    JIM
    #52 jimshadow, Mar 29, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Well, I hit the garage at 7am and was told to pack it up at 5pm. I got lots accomplished. :)

    I started by separating those pesky ball joints. It took soaking them in penetrating oil and buying a new ball joint tool. So far the Harbor Freight tools that I've purchased have been great, with the exception of the ball joint tool. You really need a steel one for this job and the HF one is aluminum. It's pretty bent up. Even after buying a new tool this A.M., I still had to give it some pretty good whacks to get them off! So, the spindles are ready to be milled down roughly 1/8" to allow for the dustcap/centercaps to fit properly. I'll give a full report on those later. This was the last thing that I had to do before sending everything off to the powder coater. I should be able to do this Mon. or Tues. I'm also going to have some other pieces done while I have parts there. I'm going to save those for another thread as they should be fun. :)

    Next I took to the A-Arm bushings. My vice would not hold them very well when using the recip. saw. It vibrated the workbench so much that stuff was falling everywhere! So, in a moment of brilliance, I decided to make use of my trusty little press and used it to hold the A-Arms still while I lopped off the metal washer end. Unfortunately, I could not use the press to press out the bushings. I thought this might be the case when I was debating between the 6 and 12 ton presses, but I don't have a lot of room for the floor model. Anyway, I decided to burn out the bushings.
    TIP: When burning out the bushings, you don't need to burn a lot of rubber. The trick is to get the metal sleeve (that the bolt goes thru) nice and hot from both sides. Some rubber will burn, but not tons. Once hot, use channel locks to turn the washer that's attached to this sleeve and it should slide right out leaving the rubber in place. Next, use a long screwdriver to push out the warm rubber. This is a messy job for the tools, but once you are done, just warm them up with your torch and wipe them down with a shop rag. They come right clean!!

    The final project of the day was to get the steering rack mounted. This is a big project that WILL REQUIRE lots of patience to complete! The first thing that I did was to get the new bushings in the new aluminum mounting brackets. I chose the newer poly bushings. They are a pice of cake to put in place. They are considerablly stiffer than what was in there also. It should make for some bigtime feedback thru the steering wheel. (more to come on that) You can see big differences between the two styles of brackets in the pictures.
    Next step is to mount the drivers side bracket on the rack. You have to do this because there is next to no clearance in the workspace, plus there is a groove on this side of the rack that the mount sits in. The bracket fits VERY tight. DO NOT tighten this down as you will have to do several test fits in order to align the steering column with the spline shaft of the rack!!!!
    I spent a good hour or more doing test fits. This involved loosely setting mounting brackets in place on the frame while sliding the rack in and out as I made adjustments on the side of the spline shaft. You cannot twist the rack while the bracket is on! This would've made life so much easier! Luckily Todd stopped by in his Avanti (Ferrari is warm in his garage) and gave me some help during this stage. It was much needed. (THANKS AGAIN!)
    I ended my workday by getting the rack aligned with the steering column. The column is attached and the passenger side mount is tightened down. The ONLY thing that I did not do was to check to see if my steering wheel is on straight. The new bracket is taller, so it moves the rack back a little towards the firewall. This makes it very tricky to fit the steering column over the spline shaft. Is there another way to straighten it out, or am I going to have to pull it apart again to get it done? (HELP!)

    Anyway, this is where I am at the moment. Powder Coater this week. Shocks will now be ordered and the spindles milled. Things are moving along.

    JIM
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  3. Pizzaman Chris

    Pizzaman Chris F1 Rookie

    Mar 13, 2005
    3,919
    New Hampshire
    Full Name:
    Pizzaman Chris
    #53 Pizzaman Chris, Mar 30, 2008
    Looking good Jim.

    I will put this thread in my favorite list.



    BTW what's this I hear that you had to pack it in by 5pm?? What's going on at that house hold??;) Can't a man spend the whole weekend playing mechanic in his garage?? LOL
     
  4. jimshadow

    jimshadow F1 Veteran
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Feb 19, 2006
    6,239
    Indiana/North Carolina
    Full Name:
    JIM
    #54 jimshadow, Mar 30, 2008
    It was Heather's birthday. Luckily for me her favorite thing to do is read, then nap. :) The girls were at a friends house so she had a nice quiet house to herself. She loved it and I got to play mechanic. The girls and I took her out to dinner at 5....:)

    I keep trying to get her to help me in the garage, but she say's "NO, you go out and get that done..." (Is that reverse psychology?)
    :)

    JIM
     
  5. b27

    b27 F1 World Champ

    Oct 11, 2007
    15,781
    Melbourne, Australia
    Full Name:
    Brett
    #55 b27, Mar 30, 2008
    Thats twice I've seen reference to that section. Don't seem to be able to locate it?????

    Is it up and running yet. One other poster said the same thing, but later clarified it wasn't going yet.

    BTW, good job JIM, looks like fun.

    Loved the medical gloves. :):) I use cotton gloves as I find that type tends to rip very easily.
     
  6. jimshadow

    jimshadow F1 Veteran
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Feb 19, 2006
    6,239
    Indiana/North Carolina
    Full Name:
    JIM
    #56 jimshadow, Apr 7, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Haven't posted in a week and I'm on Pg. 3!! Lots of activity in the 3x8 section....that is excellent! :)

    Well, aside from the column alignment issues, I have made <some> progress over the past week. :)
    A week ago I took in my suspension bits to be powdercoated. On Saturday I was able to pick them up. WOW! What a difference. :)


    I have determined that IF one decides to go with the 'newer' style steering rack clamps, that the poly bushings WILL NOT work!!!
    As you can see in the pictures, there is a significant difference in the height and shape of the newer bushings. I have replaced them all with the original rubber style, which sit much lower in the mount. I now have the rack in and properly centered, etc...

    The last thing that I decided to do was to pull off my front lower valence and have it repaired. On the drivers side it was pretty beat up and hung down below the bottom of the fender. It was rather unsightly. I found a guy in town who has 30+yrs of fiberglass experience. He is repairing it right now. He even offered to make me a stronger/lighter one for $500 which would include the mold in case I wanted to make multiples and sell them. I thought about it but decided that the $$ would be best spent on shocks/springs. :)
    I should be able to pick it up today. I'll post more pics later.
    On the valence you can see the ONLY spot on the car that still has the original color on it. Man I wish I could get her back to that. Oh well...

    Enjoy!

    JIM
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  7. eulk328

    eulk328 F1 Rookie

    Feb 18, 2005
    2,800
    Full Name:
    F683
    #57 eulk328, Apr 7, 2008

    Looking good.

    I wanted to add that I never think of Poly. bushings on any part of a car as an improvement or as superior. It's not some magical, miracle sustance. It's a different set of compromises. Better for a pure track car, probably longer lasting, more resistant to oil. On the other hand rubber isolates better (reduces noise and vibration better) is easier to work with etc. It's greater compliance may mean the difference between just an unpleasant low speed bump against the curb with the wheel versus a slightly bent suspension component. Even if rubber bushings have to be changed every 15 years I think that it's a worthwhile trade-off. Unless rubber parts are not available or the price is crazy I would likely always use them instead of Poly.
     
  8. SMS

    SMS F1 Veteran

    Jan 7, 2004
    6,774
    Indy
    Full Name:
    Bill S.
    #58 SMS, Apr 7, 2008
    Great work Jim. Need a deadline? Get it done this week and run to Louisville with us on Saturday for the Thunder Run drive and see the air show.

    (The only way I get things done around the house is to schedule a party when the bathroom is half demolished. That is serious motivation right there!)
     
  9. jimshadow

    jimshadow F1 Veteran
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Feb 19, 2006
    6,239
    Indiana/North Carolina
    Full Name:
    JIM
    #59 jimshadow, Apr 7, 2008
    AAARRRGGGHHH!!!!!

    If I figure out the steering column issue, it <COULD> be done this weekend, but don't hold your breath. :( As soon as its done I'll be joining the crew for these types of events for sure!!! I've felt all weekend like I should've waited for this.....I know though that once she's done I'll be in HEAVEN!!!!

    JIM
     
  10. jimshadow

    jimshadow F1 Veteran
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Feb 19, 2006
    6,239
    Indiana/North Carolina
    Full Name:
    JIM
    #60 jimshadow, Apr 7, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Part of this suspension rebuild includes the milling down of the front spindles in order to have the front dustcaps fit better with the 328 wheels. Today a buddy took them to his work and had a guy there do some "gubment work" on the Bridgeport Mill. You can see the end result here. Approx 1/8in. (3.17mm) was milled off and the edge was given a slight bevel. Quick job and it beats the heck out of grinding it down. :)

    JIM
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  11. Hans

    Hans F1 Veteran

    Feb 17, 2006
    7,734
    Hilversum, Netherlands
    Full Name:
    Hans Teijgeler
    #61 Hans, Apr 8, 2008
    My QA-1 extenders have not been shipped yet, Jim. The guy is waiting for his supplier to send them over. No word yet on when I can expect them. Sorry I can't tell you yet how well these will work...

    Hans
     
  12. jimshadow

    jimshadow F1 Veteran
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Feb 19, 2006
    6,239
    Indiana/North Carolina
    Full Name:
    JIM
    #62 jimshadow, Apr 8, 2008
    I'm going to call and have a discussion with QA-1 today. I've double checked the measurements and will see what they say. The next size up shock requires a 14" spring... Right now sitting on jackstands my rear spring measures approx 13".... We'll see.

    JIM
     
  13. Hans

    Hans F1 Veteran

    Feb 17, 2006
    7,734
    Hilversum, Netherlands
    Full Name:
    Hans Teijgeler
    #63 Hans, Apr 8, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Actually, I am pretty sure that what I am planning will work (just like Verell said).

    On the QA-1's, the top of the spring is in a cup, right below the top eye, and the bottom is on a cup that can be set anywhere along the lower part of the shock by rotating this cup. The lower part of the shock is fully threaded.

    Problem is that the higher you set the lower cup, the more you pre-compress the spring. The shock will be fully extended at this point, and you are simply compressing the spring. Once you put the unit in your car, the weight of the car will compress the spring even farther, so no problem there. The only issue is that if the weight of the car will compress the spring say 3", and you've already dialed in 2" of pre-compression, then the whole thing can only extend 1" before topping out. So if you then go over a bump, the spring compresses a bit more from the bump, and then in the rebound decompresses beyond the normal position and - if you're unlucky - also beyond normal + 1" and thus top out.

    Lenghtening the inner rod of the shock by 1" while leaving the cup at the exact same location on the shock housing will basically position the plunger 1" deeper inside the shock. Car weight will still compress the shock by 3", but you've now added an additional inch of room for the shock to extend before it tops out. See sketch...

    Hans
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  14. jimshadow

    jimshadow F1 Veteran
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Feb 19, 2006
    6,239
    Indiana/North Carolina
    Full Name:
    JIM
    #64 jimshadow, Apr 9, 2008
    I've figured out my steering column issue. I'll post pictures tonight. Basically I had to re position the steering wheel using the adjustments at the top of the column. End result is that the wheel is tilted more towards the windshield. This allows the column to move in the needed direction and away from where it was hitting.

    I'm ordering shocks/springs, etc... this AM. I'm going to pick up a pair of 1" extenders for the rear shocks like HANS. I should have the column all bolted back tonight and I'll start putting the suspension bits back together.

    JIM
     
  15. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

    Oct 31, 2003
    13,633
    The twilight zone
    Full Name:
    The Butcher
    #65 mk e, Apr 9, 2008
    That doesn't look like a very good plan to me. I have never seen a QA1 up close, but most shocks have a snubber sitting in the spring cup to prevent the piston from bottoming out and getting damaged. What you're planning looks like it will move the snubber an inch further away, allowing an inch more travel which will most likely allow the piston to bottom in the bore damaging the shock. If the shock is too short, the extender should be installed outside the spring cup to keep the shock travel limits exactly the way they were designed to be. The other option is to put the extender where you show it and also put a spacer under the snubber to keep the shock travel correct.
     
  16. jimshadow

    jimshadow F1 Veteran
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Feb 19, 2006
    6,239
    Indiana/North Carolina
    Full Name:
    JIM
    #66 jimshadow, Apr 9, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    With their extender, there is an option of where to place the spring seat...either on the eyering or on the extender itself. Does this help the issue you speak of Mark?

    JIM
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  17. Hans

    Hans F1 Veteran

    Feb 17, 2006
    7,734
    Hilversum, Netherlands
    Full Name:
    Hans Teijgeler
    #67 Hans, Apr 9, 2008
    Sorry Jim, for not being able to get you test results before you buy your stuff. I hope to get my parts halfway next week....

    But first... install my new fuel pump...

    Hans
     
  18. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

    Oct 31, 2003
    13,633
    The twilight zone
    Full Name:
    The Butcher
    #68 mk e, Apr 9, 2008
    It does as long you pick on the extender so the spring cup stays right where it was. Unless it’s all built inside these shocks, which it could be. If there is no snubber that sits in the spring cup then it isn’t an issue, but normally there is one there. Production cars oftern have the snubber on the suspension some place so the shock doesn't have to handle that function, but with 308s at least the only snubber is on the shock.
     
  19. jimshadow

    jimshadow F1 Veteran
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Feb 19, 2006
    6,239
    Indiana/North Carolina
    Full Name:
    JIM
    #69 jimshadow, Apr 9, 2008

    Hans,
    Thanks for being so willing to help out a GT4 Brutha!!! Sorry to hear about your fuel pump. That's a real bummer!! If you think about it, could you snap a couple pics of the install?
    Thanks!

    Jim
     
  20. jimshadow

    jimshadow F1 Veteran
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Feb 19, 2006
    6,239
    Indiana/North Carolina
    Full Name:
    JIM
    #70 jimshadow, Apr 9, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    THE RACK IS IN!!!!!!
    WHOOOOO HOOOOOO. :)
    What a job that was. You WILL learn patience for sure.
    Let me recap....

    IF you decide to swap out your steering rack and you have the "OLD" style mounting brackets and want to go to the "NEW", you MUST use the original type of bushings in the "NEW" style mount. Poly bushings are too tall and will not compress far enough. The problem you will have will be that the steering rack will be pushed back a good 1/2" towards the firewall. This really messes up things in the column. The "NEW" style mount + rubber bushings will be the set up.

    The big issue that I had once I figured this out was that my steering column 'moved' so that the bolt on the lower Universal Joint was hitting the clutch stop adjustment bracket. To resolve this I ended up loosening the nuts at the top of the column (just behind the steering wheel) and moved the wheel while pulling downward on the slip joint. This moved the column out of the way. The only issue now is that my steering wheel is in a different position. (We'll see if it matters once I'm driving again. :) )

    Tomorrow I'll have my QA1 shocks/springs on my doorstep and I'll be reinstalling the suspension.
    I put in 2 of my 3 grilles tonight as well. I included a couple pics.

    JIM
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  21. enzo thecat

    enzo thecat F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 27, 2008
    5,763
    Midwest
    Full Name:
    Enzo Thecat
    #71 enzo thecat, Apr 12, 2008
    Absolutely unbelievable. Things are looking great. I didn’t know you had all this talent in you Jim & I for one am thoroughly impressed! I can’t wait to get a ride.
     
  22. jimshadow

    jimshadow F1 Veteran
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Feb 19, 2006
    6,239
    Indiana/North Carolina
    Full Name:
    JIM
    #72 jimshadow, Apr 12, 2008
    My goal is to have it completed by tomorrow (sunday) night and aligned by Wednesday!!!! So far I have the drivers side finished. Pics to come. :)

    JIM
     
  23. climb

    climb F1 Rookie

    Sep 19, 2006
    4,866
    Atlantic Beach Fl
    Full Name:
    Stuart K. Hicks
    #73 climb, Apr 12, 2008
    Nice work. Bet you just can't wait to drive it.
     
  24. jimshadow

    jimshadow F1 Veteran
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Feb 19, 2006
    6,239
    Indiana/North Carolina
    Full Name:
    JIM
    #74 jimshadow, Apr 12, 2008
    I'm DYING to drive it!!! We've had several very nice days lately and I've had the itch! It's cold and rainy this weekend, so a perfect time to get it done. I'm taking the girls to a basketball game tonight. Pics later.
    Drivers side is done only the rotors have to go back on. I've spent time cleaning out the 2 types of grease from the hubs. (Not a pretty sight! Interestingly the greases were separated within the hub. I should've taken a pic. It looked strange.

    JIM
     
  25. enzo thecat

    enzo thecat F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 27, 2008
    5,763
    Midwest
    Full Name:
    Enzo Thecat
    #75 enzo thecat, Apr 12, 2008
    What about the parts you are waiting on? Did I miss something?
     
Page 3 of 5

Share This Page