Ferrari 355 Lawsuit: Valve Guides

It has nothing to do with the 95 models. I have been told several times that they are the most unlikely to have issues of all of the stock with the bronze guides. A master Ferrari mechanic told me emphatically that 95s are the best and that 96 and 97 were most frequent victims of Valve guide issues.

To answer your questions though, I am not sure...

 

Because the "problem" may not be Ferrari's fault in the least...

 

If the manufacturer is repairing these vehicles either under warranty or by an implied warranty, what law suit would there be? 90% of all recalls are mandated by the Federal government and are saftey related. I'm not sure that this defect fits this criteria. Of course anybody can sue anybody for anything, but most lawsiuts of this type would probably fall under a class action suit.

 

They fixed it......c'mon, you ARE an automobile product liability attorney, aren't you???

Also, there a limited time for hidden defects to present themselves then everyone is on to the next product.....360s 430s etc.

Only the 355's that DID have the trouble were addressed and on a small production car I am sure there weren't enough cases to reach "critical mass..".


Same thing occured on 360 engine, cam variators, many cars were ruined but they settled case by case with the most vocal of the opponents.......

 

10,00 to 20,000 lol. The engine shouldn't be removed from such a car for a rebuild in I would guess 150,000 miles a minimum. This is if the car was just a street car driven with services done on time and not abused.

 

A good response!

I think you are absolutely right, Ferrari got a "pass" in that the vehicles are lightly used and only the well driven ones had the troubles....in their defense I think this may have been an outsourced component that had variable quality control problems and many had no trouble at all....

Not like my ancient family, The Leach Auto company of California, the State Bear was the hood ornament, Harry Miller provided all the engines, and every one of them snapped the crankshaft!!! LOL!

Ferrari did a little better!

 

I have no idea what you're talking about. Sports car engines are built to higher tolerences than say a Honda street engine, are used at twice the RPMs on average and have many times the power. This means the engine is wearing at more than double the rate with much more stress than your typical Honda street engine, which is over engineered to the point of being indestructable. Ferrari et. al. would never build an engine like that.

The trade off is they need more frequent service, and reliability is less due to closer tolerences. That being said, there are issues like the 355 valve guides (and headers) that a reputable car company should address.

Ken

 

Yes, you're right. I guess that I for that amount of money would like them to last for that long. But I have heard of some Ferraris with over 100,000 miles with untouched motors, just regular service. My 328 at 73,000 miles was like brand new.

 

That may be that particular mechanics experience, but may not be the case for all. I have heard differing opinions from other informed sources.

 

Not for anything but a Honda S2000 engine redlines at 8000 rpm, makes nearly 110 bhp/liter, and I'm sure that most owners stress them fairly often. Not sure I would've used Honda for an example as their build quality is very high, but I get your point about the "typical" street engine.

Sweet Europa by the way.

 

Thanks; my Europa needs valve guides at 40-50k miles as they are quite short and have no seals. I'm about due in fact and I'm debating sending the head out and getting it ported while I'm at it, or saving $$$$ and doing it myself.

Agree the S2000 is not typical. I was thinking my Accord engines; I've had 4 Hondas (Accords and an Odyssey) and nothing engine related has ever gone wrong; 3 of them had/has over 100k miles too.

Ken

 

To sue Ferrari the burden would *first* be on you to prove that the Valve Guide problem for 355's was Ferrari's fault.

And there are a number of *potential* possibilities that wouldn't be seen as FNA's liability such as:
1. driving without oil (then perhaps adding new clean oil after the fact to cover up your f-up)
2. driving with too much oil such that oil was pressed by the cams and oil pump through the valve guide seals, into the engine, and in the process warping/distorting/holing valve guides
3. improper timing (perhaps set wrong by a non-authorized mechanic
4. cam belt failure (e.g. due to debris inside cam belt covers, due to a wreck, etc.)
5. scam by a dishonest shop (i.e. the valve guides weren't bad, you just got billed for them)
6. adding an oil additive (Snake oil!) that harmed the valve guides or valve guide seals
7. salvage Ferrari passed off as a clean or cloned vehicle (about half of all Ferraris currently for sale at any given time have title/carfax problems)
8. exhaust leak (e.g. failed headers, illegally-cored cats, poor header repair fit, etc.)
9. driving with the wrong oil (e.g. straight 60 weight or 75 weight transmission oil in the engine)
10.modified engine (e.g. turbo, nitrous, etc.)
11.honest mistake by an honest shop (e.g. they bent the valve guides, perhaps even while working on something else)
12.dishonest mistake by a shop (see #11 and #5)
13.hidden mileage (many Ferraris have their odometer disconnected or rolled back, so a car that legitimately needs new valve guides - they are a "wear" item - may appear to have only 10k miles when it really has 110k miles)

 

A Porsche GT3 at 8,200 rpm and the Carrera S with X51 option at about 7,400rpm.

 

It's an interesting question. Ferrari is not a large scale manufacturer and they are immensely popular. They are not concerned about public image regrading reliability; after all these are rolling pieces of art, yes? Reportedly some cars were repaired by the factory or FNA, but this is largely heresay. Most of the issues, when they come up, appear later in the cars' lives, well after warranty and most likely well after the original owners bought them from the dealerships. The original owners have no vested interest in them and the dealers have no incentive to placate 355 owners who will not be future clients of theirs.

You would think that someone, like the Disgruntled F355 Owners' Club would have done this.

 

Nice Europa BTW!!!

 

In 2000 I had valve guides replaced with less than 7800 miles on a pristine 1996 355 GTS. Seller and I split cost - caught at PPI. I learned in the process MANY had this problem including either headers or something with the exhaust; can't remember as it's been a while and I sold the car.

 

I have no idea what you're talking about. Sports car engines are built to higher tolerences than say a Honda street engine, are used at twice the RPMs on average and have many times the power. This means the engine is wearing at more than double the rate with much more stress than your typical Honda street engine, which is over engineered to the point of being indestructable. Ferrari et. al. would never build an engine like that.

The trade off is they need more frequent service, and reliability is less due to closer tolerences. That being said, there are issues like the 355 valve guides (and headers) that a reputable car company should address


At higher RPMS there can be actualy be less wear on componets but heat is a problem. More damage is done to Ferrari motors by lugging them around town at low RPMS then by folks winding them out all day. Ferrari should fix all 355 valve guide problems no matter what and fix the header problem too for the next 10 years.

Thes lawsuites against car companies are hard to do. I was involved in one against VW for a 2002 Passat with an oil sludging problem. A lot of work to get a new motor for a crap car I never wanted to see again. The oil pan design on the car was poor as was the oil filtration and pick up system. I am a mechanical engineer but getting enough proof to prove the claim would cost $500,000. No attorney wants to invest to put together a good trail so the car companies get by on this stuff if the market is small such as VW and Ferrari

To settle with VW I decided never to buy another VW/Audi/Bently/Lambo product again. My kids will not have any of thier cars either.

 

Wow, this is a great thread. Great topic too.


I have wondered the same for years, another example would be with a Ducati motorcycle. A high-performance 996 or 998 streetbike under regular 'abuse' will need to have the engine pulled and revalved-and sealed after 15,000 miles. Why is that necessary when an equivalent Honda or Suzuki can be 'abused' for more than 25,000 miles and still be in order? (The Ducati costs twice as much as the Honda too.)

 

No.


Just, no.



Where you get expert agreement is that Testarossas, Boxers, and TR's up until the 512M have a defective differential housing.


Where you get expert agreement is that all 355 exhaust headers will fail.


The valve guide issue is another matter altogether. Certainly not every 355 owner gets hit by that problem.

That means that you would have to explain the randomness.

 

I guess I feel that the day you can buy a good used Ferrari 355 motor for $2500 we might be able to compare them with a Honda S2000. But you cant. And a quick google seach shows the S2000 motor has a lot of the same problems. 100+ HP per liter is a great deal of power, and a crankshaft is still a crankshaft and oil is still oil. And when you cram a combustion chamber full of valves and crank it up to 9000 rpm regularly, expect higher wear rates. Soes the 355 have valve trouble? Does it have a header problem? Maybe, but for the money what else could you possibly buy that would keep up to it?

 

My independent mechanic also said that he had changed several 97s but never a 95. Might just be his luck, but still......