And your point is... They finished 1-2 in the final standings and McLaren won the WCC. You can't get any more successful than that. This is why they race, you know...
I´ve already discussed this with you in another thread. Summarizing what was said in the other thread: they finished 1 and 2 because the McLaren of those year was unbeatable, but what would have happened if Senna and Prost were together in 1991, when the Williams was the best car, at least in the second half of the season? I´m not a devote fan of the first/second driver tactics, but I won´t deny that having two equal drivers can cause a lot of trouble.
Strangely enough, I think if Senna and Prost had been together in 91, they would have quickly solved the problems that McLaren had and got on with fighting each other. Prost was once quoted saying that Senna was so open with information that you would think that they were best friends. Senna was all about the rivalry. He tried to talk Prost into coming back for 94.
Maybe yes, but I don´t think so. I think that the McLaren team was just free falling, and they hit the bottom in 1993. You know the cliché... Formula 1 is cyclical, etc. Anyway, I´ll put another example: Scuderia Ferrari in 2000 or 2003.
They were still strong in 91 and had Honda on board at that point. If Ron had gotten them to work together, Prost would have figured out the issues with the chassis and it would have been another 1 & 2 for them, I think. The problems they were having in 93 were due to Honda's departure and the financial stress of diverting funds from car development to having to pay Senna's salary (according to Ron Dennis). Had it not been for Senna in the MP4/8 they wouldn't have won a race that year.
Alonso is a great driver. His problem is he can't keep his mouth shut,especially when badmouthing his own team when things aren't going well. You don't see that from Kimi or Michael. It just demoralizes the team and pits them against you. I afraid what's going to happen to Alonso is that unless Renault develops back its car to its championship days, he's going to flounder in midpack teams just like Villenuve did after one championship, and basically for the same reasons, attiude towards team and bad carreer moves. At least he won't be going to Ferrari to discombobulate the harmony in the team. Now we just need someone other than Massa,maybe Vettle?
What does any of that have to do with the point we are discussing, which is pairing two WDCs on the same team There are many, many examples in F1 history of the benefits of having two strong drivers. There is more than one way to win a championship in F1, you know. Too many folks here have been weaned on Schumacher's undisputed status at Ferrari and thinkt hat is the only way to win a title. Let me remind you that according to quite a few folks on this board, Ferrari has two #1 drivers.
+1 Evidently Luca feels that is the situation at Ferrari. He has "2 drivers who work well together". On the surface no driver is the #1 until such time that is the strategy to be employed and the de-facto #2 has to put up, shut up and support. He doesnt see Alonso fitting into that just yet. Evidently Alonso was victim of the 'shumi' status mentality. He didnt fit into a team that had 2 strong drivers and left. Now according to him that team isnt a "winning team". Im no Mclaren fan but I think they are better off without him. I would think others feel the same. Except for those mid pack teams that can sell his status to their sponsors.
It was already discussed: I meant that Senna wouldn´t have won that championship if he had to share his points with Prost. Same goes for Mansell/Piquet, etc... Yes, I agree that there is more than one way of doing things, and no one is better than the other. It just depends on the circumnstances. I was just trying to expose possible adverse effects of this "equal drivers" theory, as some posters seems to be forgetting them. And they had. Until it was impossible to keep with it.
Ummmm......your point fails under scrutiny. Senna DID win a WDC with Prost as teammate, just as Prost won one with Senna as his teammate, so clearly pairing them did no harm. And Piquet DID win a WDC with Mansell as his teammate in 1987 and had Mansell not had the tire failure in Adelaide in 1986, he too would have won a WDC with Piquet as his teammate. Ferrari CURRENTLY HAS an equal driver policy. Team management has been saying this left and right since Kimi joined the team. Let me make this clear: Ferrari and McLaren have had THE EXACT SAME POLICY towards their drivers for the last two seasons; both drivers race for the title until one of them is mathematically eliminated. The ONLY DIFFERENCE last year was that McLaren had two drivers in contention until the end whereas Ferrari had one title contender and one also-ran. THAT IS THE ONLY DIFFERENCE.
As said before: the McLaren of those years was a rocket. When Senna had a "normal" car (1991), he couldn´t afford to share the points wich McLaren could score with Prost.
Naa...the only differance was that Alonso pushed in the plunger on Mclaren. There was a big differance between the parings. Most people can see that wherever Alonso goes if he has a partner that can challenge him for any races that he looses it. That is why they set him up with Nelson this year. If you want to see Flavio commit suicide(which he wont) then lets see him try and recruit Hamilton or Kimi as a second driver while retaining Alonso. Aint gonna happen just like Alonso will never ever drive for Ferrari. Luca would be better off recruiting a blind man as #2
Did you even watch that season? I'd rather watch Senna and Prost, two of the best ever, fight it out in equal cars than what happened in 04. Now THAT was a boring season. Probably the worst ever.
Alonso would have had no problems at McLaren if it had been anyone but Hamilton in the other car. How can you expect to be treated equally, much less preferencially, over a driver that the team owner himself says is like a son to him. No one would thrive in that situation. Also, McLaren has slipped back a bit. Alonso brought more to the table car set-up wise than people realize. Every team he's on, the car improves. This is no coincidence. Lewis was living off of Alonso's development work and now he and the team are a bit lost that he's on his own. It remains to be seen if he can fix the problem.
Well, in 1990 Prost WAS taking points from Senna while with Ferrari, Senna still won. In 1992, Berger's McLaren had 7 retirements to Senna's 1. Berger's one win of the season, in Japan, was gifted to him by Senna. Assuming Prost was in that seat, he would have still suffered just as many mechanical failures as Berger and certainly would not have been gifted a win. It seems to me that Berger drove the second McLaren about as well as can be expected. For much of the season both cars were shaded by the Williams. Had Prost been in the car and outperformed Berger on those races when the car finished, he would have been taking more points proportionately off the Williams duo than Senna. Senna was taking much of his points in races where Berger failed to finish. Given the strength of the Williams duo that year, particularly in the second half of the season, it is difficult to envision a scenario where Prost would have been diluting Senna's points rather than the Williams team.
you must be kidding. Take a look at the TV ratings growth that season compared to the decline in tv ratings in 2004. It is MUCH more exciting to watch two top level drivers in equal machinery going at it than watching one top driver in the best car, with a contractual #2 alongside him, destroying the field. At least in 1988 there was actual racing going on, even if within one team. Too bad Schumacher didn't have the confidence to have a top ranked driver alongside him. Could you imagine how much more exciting 2007 would have been with Schumacher in the Ferrari instead of Massa?
It was booring because no other teams were even close. I knew many fans who took leave from the sport in the late 80s and the early 90s while honda just cleaned up. There was nothing even close.
So it was closer when Ferrari was dominant in 2000 to 2004 with only one driver allowed to win? Hell, I stopped watching then, it sucked so much. At least the McLarens raced each other. It was far from boring, anyone who didn't watch F1 in the lates 80's to the early 90's missed some of the most dramatic seasons ever.
I think your a bit to quick to rule out LH and Mclaren. To claim LH was living of FA is laughable, how come he beat him even if he was setting up his car, that mean's he could do more with it. Just admit you don't like him and be done with it instead of picking poor point's
McLaren is not as close to Ferrari this year as they were last year and seems to be falling further back. If Kimi goes on a tear like last year, there will be no catching him. Hamilton is certainly quick over one lap. His race pace is quite good as well and he's a brave overtaker. What good does any of that do you if you can't set up a car? He's incomplete, but that those skills can be learned. I don't think Lewis would not have gotten off to the hot start that he did last year without Alonso's set up information. You might be aware of his drop off in results since he hasn't had this help. Alonso was the quicker driver from that point on in a team that he was uncomfortable with I might add. I don't dislike him. I actually think the kid's alright. He seems like he's going to be the next big thing. He's is, however, not the second coming of Fangio, like everyone is making him out to be just yet. He has a lot still to prove to be put on a level with guys like Kimi and Alonso and that's what I dislike. We still don't know all there is to know about him. We don't know if he can work magic with a car that is crap like Kimi and Alonso have, he's certainly never shown any signs of being able to yet.
Of course Prost was taking points from Senna, Ferrari paid him for doing that. The question is: could have Senna defeated Prost in the Ferrari that year if there was a Prost clone in the other McLaren?
I hate to agree, but I have to agree. Only three races so far, and two of them were affected by grid penalties, silly mechanical problems or weird accidents. Let´s wait and see.
Maybe it is a bit too early but Lewis tends to only win from pole and Hekki's never won a race yet. The Ferrari seems quicker than the McLaren over one lap so far this year.
