Belt Changes on a 355??

I'm sure this has been covered before, but my 355 has 10,500 miles. The belts and the complete service were done 3,000 miles ago, 3 years and 8 months ago. Obviously, the car has not been driven a whole lot since.

The local dealer service manager "mentioned" to me that the belt intervals were changed to a 3-year recommendation last year. "But it's up to you!" Now, are OEM belts so cheesy that they deteriorate just sitting in the garage, is this a revenue booster, or is it really more a mileage thing than a time question??

Opinions? They want $7,500 for the engine out service, and I just have a hard time believing the care really needs it. I will drive it maybe 2,000-3,000 miles a year, nice weather only, and rarely if ever really push it. After all, $2.50 a mile just for interval services is a little steep, even for an Italian exotic!

 

Yes, this topic has been discussed dozens of times on the forums. If you do a search you will find many long and heated debates regarding 3 vs. 5 vs 5+ years service. Here is the quick summary:

1. It is usually the tensioners that fail, not the belt(s).
2. The factory spec IS 3 years, but it was 5 previously.
3. The forum at large seems to agree somewhere between 3 and 5 is a good interval. 3 if you are cautious, 5 if you are feeling brave.
4. Mileage, time, etc. are all variables that factor into failure but none of them are singularly corrolated.
5. There is no 100% "right" answer, nor is there a sure-fire way to determine the proper time to replace.

You can argue, justify, compare to other cars, and rationalize both sides of the debate until you are blue in the face. For every good, logical reason you can go 10 years, there are an equal number that support 3 years, with data backing up both sides.

7.5k for service (or higher in many cases) is expensive, but a broken belt will often go well into the 20k range.

Bottom Line:

Determining how much risk you can handle is a personal decision, and utlimately will be the deciding factor of when you do your belts.

 

That pretty much sums it up, end of story, it's up to you to decide.

 

Mike, you'll probably get chided for asking the infamous timing belt question, which comes up a lot.

Basically, Ferrari issued a TSB several years back that supercedes the OM-specified intervals for V8 Ferrari engines with rubber timing belts. Officially, its now every 3 years or 30,000 miles, whatever comes first.

There's some disagreement (to put it mildly) as to whether Ferrari are simply covering their a$$, out for revenue, or reflecting the reality that having a high-revving engine with a rubber timing belt sitting around idle most of the time is a recipe for trouble. For what it's worth, I plan to do my 328 belts after 3 years just to fix a cam seal leak. I wouldn't lose any sleep letting it go to 4 or 5 years, but it seems that as these cars age there are reasons other than the belt to have it maintained in this critical area.

Ferrari doesn't view any price as too steep to maintain a Ferrari, btw. Their implied response is that if you're on a budget you shouldn't own a Ferrari. IMO, 355 service costs are more ridiculous than usual, but hopefully you knew that when you selected this model. Even the ~$4000 cost for the 308/328 is steep. I just accepted that when I decided on a 328.

 

If you ever get a chance to see the timing belts that are taken out, it will help your thinking. It is not the teeth that break and crack as much as it is the back of the belt. The rubber strip that has all the print on it gets really thin! This is of course due to being used and not age. The tensioners are a huge part of that service too. Again, IMHO I think it comes down to having a known history, if this is the cars first major then you can feel better about how long to go until the next one, If I keep this 355 GTS I am probably going to a 4-5 year interval. But I just did the major with clutch and guides, so I KNOW I am good.

 

Did they say what parts they replace (no matter what) with the 'engine out' service? What kind of warranty?

When I do mine it will include: water pump, all tensioner bearings, AC service, all belts, all fliuds, spark plugs, thermal switches, thermostat, o2 sensors, vacuum hoses,
throttle body synchronisation +++... and if needed..... 'inner' CV boots, clutch ......etc.??

I have over a year on my last engine out....... I do lots of maintenece, parts replacement, fluid replacements and check all belt tensions/conditions on a regular basis.............. so I may do my next 'major' service somewhere between the 4 and 5 year mark.

 

My last major was done Oct. 06 and I won't even consider doing it again until winter of 2010....Major service every 3 years for a car that puts around 2-3k a year on it is crazy...Ferrari trying to sell there outrageous priced parts is all that is...

 

+1, great plan. I'm doing my major now and it was at 4 yrs...next will be in the 4-5 yr range. My key to hit that without worrying about the belts is to not let them sit in one position for more than a few weeks, always start it to move the belt position so it's not stretched locally in one spot.

 

+1

 

Since the car was driven regularly, but not very far or very fast (I had a long talk with the previous owner's book keeper who took the car in for service!) the belts were likely kept moving. The car was also serviced in '06 and '07 for regular stuff and some complaints at the dealer, and they said looked for any signs of wear or age. Sooo...

I think I'll give myself 25-33% slack for the low, easy mileage and meticulous care given the car, and do the service next year. I'll put my pennies in the piggy bank to fund it


Happy discovery -- all the leather and dash were redone in '06, which explains the perfect condition. Didn't know that!

Put new rubber on it yesterday... turned out the old tires had a lot of tread, but there were lots of dry spots and cracking, particularly between the treads and on the inner walls. And those were the car's SECOND set of tires, from 2000!

 

Climate is important too. Our Ferrari are stored in a climate controlled garage, when we did our 308 before selling it last year, the belts were 5 years old and only about 3,000 miles. They still looked new. We just had Dave Helms do a major on our 86 TR, last major was about 6 years ago and about 3,500 miles. Belts on the TR looked perfect also. I guess it is better to be safe than sorry. My 360 3 year belt service will be due this summer, I will perform the service next year though.....

 

I believe there have been examples here on Fchat in which a belt looked new.... after it had failed! And if anyone working on a Ferrari took the belt off and reused/retensioned it, because it still looked good, that's a prescription for definite failure!!! Read the workshop manual on that topic where it is verboten to reuse a belt!

Tensioners can also fail, if it's not documented they have been replaced regularly. So since other things such as water pumps need to be serviced regularly also, to take care of a car, it's just not worth it in my book to push major services beyond 3-5yrs. I plan to push mine to 4-5yrs, but not beyond. To each his own, though.

 

I don't think anyone ever suggested re-using a timing belt. No manufacture (not just Ferrari) recommends re-using a t-belt either.

The issue of tensioners is a valid one and the dealer recommends inspecting and if OK, changing the tensioners at every second service .

The water pump is inspected and new seals installed by the dealer at every timing belt service as well.
Another option is to install a rebuilt water pump at every t-belt change because they can be had for less than $300.00 and for the modest cost might be worth doing just for peace of mind.

With my 355 I will continue THE DEALERS SERVICE interval of 5 years (since the car was new), replace the tensioners at every second t-belt change and install a rebuilt water pump or replace the water pump bearing & seals at every t-belt service.

I also start the car once a month in the winter to 'excercise' the t-belt and prevent damage/stretching to the belt.

With the above I don't intend to 'baby' the car and use it to its full extreme at every opportunity.

 

That is precisely the problem, an idle car's belts sitting in one spot too long. Over the last 20 years of owning and changing belts on various cars, including 4 different ferraris, the various belts look about the same in overall build quality(ie; comparing an Audi belt with a ferrari belt). I have had audis and VW's and changed their belts at their recommended time intervals(60,000+ miles) with no problems in between times, but the cars were driven almost daily. If you drove an Fcar on a regular basis, 8000 to 10,000 miles a year, I think you would see the belts go along time also. But that seems to be the rub here, that Fcar owners are letting their cars sit too much through a given year. Ferrari isn't saying this but I think this is the hardest thing on a Fcar's belts is infrequent use and possibly the reason why they have changed from 5 yrs to 3 yrs. If one used an Audi the way most folks use a Ferrari you would probably see the belt problem on them also. In all the research I have done over the years I have not found much concern from other owners of other makes that use rubber timing belts. When I did here of one failing in something other than an Fcar it was from neglect, 90,000+ or so miles on the belt. Just MHO based on personal research.

 

Right, but just because you see a belt that looks new, doesn't mean some yoyo didn't decide to take it off, inspect it ("looks like new"), and reuse it. Probably not likely, but my point was that you can't tell the real history and condition of a belt just because it looks like new.

 

I last changed mine almost 4 1/2 years ago. So I am booking it in for a full service. My guy thinks they can go up to 5 years as well. He has quoted around $3,000 whereas the dealer is around $5,000. Like most the car is driven3-4,000 kms a year but does get run at least once a month. Thanks for the info on water pumps. Will do that as well.

 

I'm going to go with a 7 to 8 year interval. Of course, I drive my car like grandma. If my Lexus can go 7 years and 90,000 miles, surely my Ferrari can make it 7 years and 7,000 miles. Afterall, it went 17 years and 23,000 miles on its first belt!

I've heard enough horror stories of things going terribly wrong right after a belt service that I'd be scared to do it until I felt like I absolutely HAD to. I think the risk of screwing something up in the process is legitimate.

Then again, I consider myself a risk taker - I've got a $10K deductible on my Home insurance, no comprehensive or collision on any of my cars.

You can insure yourself broke.

 

I do mine by mileage, then again 30k miles for me is 2 years.