UFOs

I normally don't 'believe' in UFOs, but the Rendlesham Forest incident really made me think, as there's nothing the witnesses could have to gain. Normally there's always some aspect where you can put your finger on and say: This is a good reason for making the whole story up, but not with Rendlesham. In the contrary, especially the base commander had A LOT to lose. Getting the base under your command 'attacked' by something you can't explain and have no defense against surely isn't anything you want in that position.

Uh, why? A piece of metal that turns out to be nothing special?

 

So....basically. Aliens managed to defy physics and traveled FTL over ten of thousands of light years to take a peak at Earth. Let's set aside all the other mountains of technology needed to make interstellar travel a reality; advanced sensing equipment and computers to run them, FTL communications, power sources, et cetera.

So let's assume for a second that this alien society has progressed to the point that they can travel FTL, possess the computing power needed to skip past known obstacles in space and had the grit to tie it all into a system that works, and managed to pull over at Earth to change a spare tire and had an epic battle with an enemy that is lobbing low velocity projectiles at them.

See my point?

It would have been over for Rendlesham before it even started.

 

Completely agree with you, that's why I wrote 'attack' and not attack Did you read the whole story about Rendlesham? Whatever was there, it wasn't aggressive, just strange sightings etc. And just for the record, I don't say "Aliens came to the British forest, period.", I say it makes me think. Might have been something else entirely, but I think we can see it as a fact that strange things occured there which can't be explained (today).

 

No, they can be explained today. Someone high up in the chain of command stepped on his own testicle and chose to lay the blame on space aliums which was a common fear amongst many people of that era. Maybe he stepped on his own testicle, or maybe he was banging the new secretary during the same span of moments that the Soviets lobbed an ICBM at them...who knows. The easy and convenient explanation at the time was, "OMG! Space Aliums!"

Today, we'd ask if he wasn't standing on his own testicle, who was? And If no one was standing on his gnads, what did he do to cover up the fact that he was banging his secretary?

Many things can be explained once you wring the human propensity for lying ,weirdness and pointless myth out of them. What you have left is just a bunch of weird humanisms and zero evidence of other-worldy visitations.

But if you want to boggle and concoct weird theories about the easily explained, be my guest. I won't take that away from you, and neither will Mulder or Scully. If you want to believe, be my guest; whatever sets your neurons alights is perfectly fine with me so long as you keep it to yourself or your close cadre of friends.

 

Well if you have knowledge what happened really back in the day, feel free to share it. The official explanation with the lighthouse is fishy at the very best. No bunch of trained soldiers and officers would mistake a (to them well known) lighthouse in the distance as whatever-they-saw.

 

Let me ask you "technology believers" a very simple question. Let us say that in 1952, a REAL and VERIFIABLE crash of an UFO occurs, and nobody really tried to cover it up. A massive government and academic research program is started into the "alien technology". Not having to cover up anything, we put all our best scientists on the job in an open forum. Let us say that the scientists discover that some of the control/communications/navigation systems use a sort of mysterious tiny black chip with multiple leads coming out.

Assuming that the researchers were able to (given the alien markings, the damaged condition of the samples, and the total lack of knowledge of what it was for) - make the brilliant guess that this was actually a "computer on a chip" - sort of the equivalent of one of our big IBM vacuum tube monsters of the day.

Now, does anybody (ANYBODY) with any credentials at all in electronic engineering think that you could sort of cut open the package and tell how to MAKE this thing JUST BY LOOKING AT IT? Are you suggesting that each saucer came not only with its electronics, but also with MANUFACTURING INSTRUCTIONS for the components written out in such a way that a primative alien society could sort of figure them out and reverse engineer them?

It is preposterous in the extreme. What modern technology we have (and it is wonderful to behold), was produced by long hard research by MANY people starting from basic principles and a cumulative understanding of the science and physics involved.

The psychology of those wanting so much to believe in the aliens that they will discard simple reason is a far more interesting subject to study than the grainy photos of somebody's dog frisbee sailing across the park - IM(skeptical)HO of course.

James

 

+1

'Reenginering by looking' might work fine with something mechanical like steam engines, but it stops where chemical processes get involved. Especially miniaturized stuff and materials can never be copied without having the manufacturing knowledge.

 

It all depends upon what your definition of "looking at it" is. Chemical and metallurgical analysis, spectrographic analysis, X-ray, neutron radiography, electron microscopic analysis, etc, etc, can reveal many things. The alien spacecraft would not need a "how to fly" manual sitting in the glove compartment in order for our technology to understand many things from an in depth analysis.

Can our technolgy understand an atomic bomb "just by looking at it"? Of course not. The actual working physics of the device are relatively intangible yet man designed the device and others are capable of analysizing and understanding it without having been at Los Alamos during the 1940s when it was developed.

 

Well, let's say you were a scientist in the first world war in Germany. The U.S. Government somehow in the year 2525 made a time machine, and for various warlike purposes - sends it back to the battle of Verdun to save lives by putting an end to things. (screw causality, eh?) It has a circa 1949 nuclear fission device on board. The core material is plutonium.

Unfortunately (or Fortunately, depending on your view), it crashes on the German side of the trenches. The bomb is found - and from the shape of the housing and the fins, is recognized to be an air drop munition.

Now - where do you go from there? Even if you got it apart - and it did not kill you from radiation poisoning - how does this one example tell you how to make another one? For example, even if you did recognize the plutonium core for the element it was - how does this tell you how to make plutonium. You have never seen a working nuclear reactor - and plutonium is unknown in nature!

Bear in mind that if 2525 USAF time machines really did exist in the future, they would be bringing nothing so primitive as an old-time plutonium bomb with them - I simplified the problem by reducing to the absurd. But even the absurd would be impossible without the discovery of the neutron in the 1930s, the explanation of fission by slow neutron release, etc. - all things that science came up with on it's own in the 20s & 30s without the benefit of looking at a finished weapon.

What the Germans WERE capable of at this time was to capture a crashed French fighter, see that it had metal wedges on the back of the propeller to fend off its own bullets. Anthony Fokker was then able to devise the interrupter mechanism and equip the Red Baron et al with it. Military secrets are by nature very incremental.

What the Russians WERE capable of in 1945 was to set up a spy ring and have the Rosenbergs STEAL THE PRODUCTION PLANS from us --- and they were practically as aware of the physics as anybody else in the world - and had witnessed Hiroshima too.

Again, I say these "leaps of technology" from UFO (and in total secrecy!) rise to the absurd if you really think about the processes involved.

 

Mankind went from riding in a covered wagon to flying to the moon within about 150 years. I would not underestimate the capabilities of determined engineers and scientists.

And this was with the technology that mankind developed themselves. Imagine the leaps that would be possible if given the chance to "peek under the alien curtain".

Also, keep in mind that a paper airplance COULD have been made by any school kid in 1805 had he known how to fold the paper. Technology is not always complicated; sometimes it just takes something to trigger the idea.

 

I think you misunderstand James, he is talking about exactly those leaps by "peeking under the alien curtain", which would be nearly impossible to benefit from for the various reasons he mentions.

 

Yeah, I'm joking. I just find that it strange that you posted that pic, because of where I was at the time.
That doesn't look black though. Where were you when you took that pic?

 

It's really easy to be skeptical about UFOs and advanced technologies. BUT, the whole Egyptian Pyramid thing, makes me wonder. Apparently the pyramids are aligned perfectly with Orion. Why? What would be the reason?

 

You can be a technology believer and also a UFO skeptic ya know Just because there wasnt' a saucer that landed here, doesn't mean we don't have some advanced technology being worked on in a secret government location.

As my previous post states...I believe in alien life, but I also don't believe that we have been visited by any of those and the chances of crossing paths with any of these other aliens when we are so far separated by time and space I just find to be too absurd.

 

Definitive book by well respected author on that subject.

http://www.amazon.com/Fingerprints-Gods-Graham-Hancock/dp/0517887290/ref=pd_bbs_sr_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1210901902&sr=8-3

That book will open your eyes my friend...and its never been able to be debunked.

 

it's a bunch of BS
no such thing as UFOs. hollywood's fault for this shyte. People who are gullible enough to believe in retards flying around inside round objects need NOT fantasize any further...

 

Im going to assume then you do not believe in any kind of supernatural phenomena which also includes any kind of God or Diety...right ?

 

A very reasonable response, it seems to me at least. I also believe that we are not alone (as sentient beings) in the universe - just a matter of the cosmic odds. I look forward to the day when contact or detection is made by remote observation.

My problem with all the "saucer crashed and was covered up, then we stole from it the transistor radio, etc..." is the monumental absurdity of it all. The comments made here were in the interest of reality vision, rather than a hatred of the idea of other intelligent beings somewhere out there.

Phycisist Laurence Kraus did a book titled "The science of Star Trek", and a followup called "Beyond Star Trek". He discusses in a most rational way the immense difficulty of traveling from one star to another - and does so in a forward looking and hopeful way.

Everybody (well I guess 99.9% of us -) wants to believe in extraterrestial beings. What was it that old Blaise Pascal said - "The immense silence makes me afraid"? Me too. But I try to temper my enthusiasm for such things with a skeptical reason, so as to guard against delusions.

Thank you for that, far out. You reminded me to make it clear that I am not trying to make fun of the enthusiasm for these kind of fanciful things - I spent many of my younger years wanting to believe in the saucers so badly that my teeth hurt. It felt better when I started to put things into perspective.

James

 

dude, I respect your belief. But how could you be so skeptic ?? there are more suns in the universe than there are grains of sand on every beach in the world. To think that there is no other planet out their that can host life is silly. Go back into time [ caveman times ] and ask yourself -- what would your grunt / response be if your fellow caveman asked --- Do you think we could go to space ??? You would have clocked him over the head with a bone.... And to think that we are the only living thing and most intellegent in the universe ??? ohhhh gawd........
again i respect your beliefs but want to try to shed a little light.

Are there UFO'S ??? dont know for sure but would like to think so.
Is there a god ??????? i believe yes !!!! but no one has documented pics.

 

Yeah, because a people with advanced technology would traverse huge tracts of space in order to align some rock buildings with some constellation just to screw with our minds. Or maybe we had a few brilliant minds that were working on some proof that has long since been lost due to the passage of time. Maybe we had brilliant mathematicians and astronomers that had a very firm grasp of what they were doing, but their endeavors and the reasons why they were pursuing them were lost in the erosion of time coupled with complacency of passing that knowledge forward.

People today are wont to flutter around that with the idea that in depth knowledge of our universe is unique only to us, now. Forgetting the fact that Eratosthenes pegged the circumference of the Earth to less than 1% accuracy as we know it today, almost 2200 years ago.

And lest we all forget, the foundations of everything we know about science are built upon the work of a very, very small number of people that number in the hundreds of people spanning a few thousand years.

 

Interesting and entertaining

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24695796/

 

Makes you wonder what we had until the romans(?) destroyed the alexandria library.

 

well.. i just cant beleive.. that in this universe.. we are the only ones around

 

Sometime ago we had the head of SETI come and speak at our school. One of things I clearly remember is that SETI is an private organization that is funded by a few individual investors(Paul Allen to be one of them). One of things he touched on was SETI was restricted by the government on what they could explore. He really did not elaborate on it. It kind of makes you wonder what the government knows. Personally I believe in alien life on other planets. But I do not think we have been visited.

 

I absolutely believe there is life all over the universe, even intelligent life. When you consider not only the vastness of the universe, but also the time-span (universe is estimated to be 14 billion years old), you have to imagine that not only somewhere, but sometime, intelligent life must have sprung up.

Have we been visited? I highly doubt it but I honestly hope it'll happen (assuming the aliens are friendly of course). It would really put things into perspective for a lot of people, and usher in a totally new era of space exploration and learning. Nothing is impossible, and just because physics as we understand doesn't allow for faster than light travel, many scientists have already alluded to the possibilities of finding ways around those laws. The technology just isn't here yet, but I believe someday we will have it. Sadly it probably won't happen in my lifetime.

Just one other food for thought. There have been reports of UFOs before people even had flight, let alone spaceflight. Seems a little odd that people hundreds of years ago would see flying machines when no such idea existed among humanity.