Interesting view point GM vs Ferrari

The LS7 is a good engine, pound for pound and cubic inch for cubic inch it is not competitive with the 4.3 liter Ferrari. If I put a super charger on a F430 Scud it would kill the Vette so bad it wouldn't be funny...

And guess what, the new technology in the LS7 internals, including the new oil seal in the rear of the Chevy block, you know the one that doesn't leak anymore, well that comes from Ferrari..


Anyway you slice it, Ferrari has won more titles in more areas of automobile racing than any other automobile company in the history of this earth...

There is nobody on the planet in their right mind who given the chance to own either a vette or an F430 Scud that would pick the Vette, it's that simple..


As for the maintenance comments, the F430 isn't that hard to maintain, it's not a Toyota, but it is very reliable... It's crazy but my Maserati Coupe with the same engine as the F430 has been more reliable this year than our brand new Toyota Sequoia...

Comment: "the f430 has many advantages over the vette, but engine performance is not one of them. the LS7 is widely recognized as one of the best engines available today."

Response: 625 hp from 7 liters = 89.285 horsepower per liter.
510 hp from 4.3 liters = 118.604 horsepower per liter.

Your comment is wrong and drastically so. The same size Ferrari engine would be producing 830 horsepower, which is about right as the FXX produces 860hp with 6.2 liters without the supercharger... So the engine in the Vette with a super charger when compared to a Ferrari engine of lesser size by one full liter has so much performance that it has 235 less horsepower? BTW, the F430 is not the top of line in Ferrari like the Vette is for Chevy. The Enzo and the FXX are far superior in power, etc..

You might also remember that Ferrari produced the F40 LM with a 3 liter engine, which produced 720 horsepower at 7500 rpm.. Much, much more than the new vette and less than half the size engine...

I agree with you that the Chevy is great bang for the buck, but in terms of true performance, it's not that hot a car unless you are joe six pack on the street. I would love to see the Vette go against a McLaren SLR or the FXX, something with the same size engine as it would be slaughtered...

I have watched a few vettes here locally get beaten so bad by an F40 it wasn't funny...

 

Ladies & Gentlemen, congratulaions on a new Vette-hating thread of opportunity, as it really has been quite a while.

I would like to submit that it would avoid much confusion I we would refer to the ZR-1 as the 90 to 95 overhead cam cars, and the ZR1 as the new supercharged item.

Thank you,
James

 

Yeah, but the Vette would still get 25mpg!

In any case, they are two different cars, built for two different purposes. Oh, and I love them both!

Boy, didn't they build some junk then.... mostly caused by government regulation, but they sure could have done a better job.

As for still building junk though, I can't say I agree. My parent's new Lucerne, though named for a carton of milk, is a damned nice car.

Shiny Side Up!
Bill

 

Have all us experts forgotten that the F430's gear ratios are very close, thereby multiplying torque in spite of actual engine output?


That is one of the main reasons the F430 is as quick as it is. The higher redline allows for better gearing. Remember it tops out at 186 mph --- GEAR limited


That said, the Z06 is still just as quick and has pretty nice ratios also

 

http://www.seriouswheels.com/cars/top-2005-Ferrari-F430.htm

196mph, not 186... The Scud is 199...

 

Must have been confused with the 360.

 

no question about it. but like i said, that's not because it's a superior performer.

well almost no question. i'm avoiding the scud because you can't get it with 3 pedals. i'm sure i'm in the tiny minority.

again, hp per liter is meaningless.

and is extremely high strung. also, and again, peak hp does not do a good job comparing engines of different types. now of course 860hp vs 505hp is so vast that it's a good enough metric.

please. if GM sold a car for $500k+ you can be sure it would have high hp per liter (not because it's important, but just because they'd wring more power out of it). you do know that the LSx is good for 1500hp, right?

An F40? the twin turbo F40??? you do know that twin turbo ls7's get 1000 hp, right? such a car would decimate the F40.

i'm sorry, but you are a ferrari fanboy. of course the vette isn't going to go up against the McLaren or FXX!!! but in terms of true performance, it most certainly is a hot car. better engine dynamics than an F430, much better MPG, better street manners, parts available everywhere (and easy to work on yourself), just in stock form ready to put a smack down on the F430 around any road course.

ps. i own both an f430 and a c6z06, and i wouldn't trade either of them for the other.

 

that's rich. the "real world" of F1? the real world is street driving and the vette does quite well there thank you very much.

you're right, it's not competitive. in price.

what does that have to do with GM vs Ferrari?

likewise. i quit buying any american car about 15 years ago. until the c6z06 came out.

that's not an endorsement of ferrari, who has also produced a lot of junk.

 

I am a Ferrari fan, have friends who work there, went to college with some of the family (Paul Ferrari, Regis College, Denver) and I own Ferrari products of all types...

Given that information, the fact that that this is a Ferrari blog and all the information I have provided I will say it as best I can..

Ready...


......






GM sucks.. Corvettes suck!!!!! Anybody can own a Vette, it's like bragging about owning a Timex.... If the vette is so great why does the Nissan GT-R kicks it's butt with turbos and a V6 half the size?

 

Here's my take on this topic.

I've ridden in a new Z06 as a passenger; I've ridden in the 430 as a passenger. Both rides were from a professional driver whom I did not know from a hole in the ground so there was no trust at all, just his title of "professional driver".

When I got out of the Z06 I was smiling and laughing and thinking WOW..., unbelievable!!!!

When I got out of the 430 I was smiling and laughing and thinking WOW..., unbelievable!!!!

Just one more thing....when I got out of the 430 my knees were shaking like I've been standing out in the cold for hours.

I can hardly remember what the z06 sounded like; I'll never forget the music of the 430, never.

If I had to choose between the two, take a guess. But that’s my opinion. I still respect the person that thinks differently, if they want a vette, then get one.

Here's something’s copied from an article that I found about the 430 from http://www.forbes.com/2004/10/15/cx_dl_1018feat.html
"You can feel the rapidity of the gear changes when you put the car in automatic mode and then go to pass somebody on a two-lane road. Mashing the throttle, you feel a BANG-BANG-BANG as the car goes from one gear to the next faster than you can think."

Here's something from the same article about the brakes:
"You can use these to terrify your passengers; with brakes this efficient, you can wait so long to hit them that each turn can feel as if it will be the last for the F430."

Again as I said before. I'll never forget the music of the 430, never.


Another thing to note here is that, and correct me if I'm wrong, Ferrari uses on its 599 suspension from Delphi, which is the GM parts supplier. That technology was used on the Z06 1st. Point being...if GM used this technology 1st then so what. If Ferrari used it 1st then so what. GM and Ferrari picked the best technology that worked for there cars and there cars alone. Now I'm sure Ferrari knew that the Corvette had this when they considered using the suspension...so I say hats off to Ferrari for picking and making the right choice. If it wasn't then they would have picked something else.

Both great cars, both icons in there own right.

 

this whole thread reminds me of a review i once read. the review was done on a z06, a tuscan tvr, a 430, and a porche 996 turbo. at the end the corvette actually out performed all cars. however at the end of the review the worded it, "the corvette is the best performer hands down, but givin the option, i would take the 430, 10 out of 10."

i think that puts it best. givin the option between the two, even the corvette owner would probably take the ferrari.

just my .02,

justin

 

was developed by Ferrari with GM and first used in the Ferrari. The brakes and all of the parts on the new ZR-1 were first used on the Ferrari. You need to go back a few posts, where I put it all out in detail with links to the stories from the web...

 

First off, the LS7 is not supercharged, the LS9 is. If you want to add forced induction to an LS7, things get scary quickly, as has been mentioned. With a normally aspirated LS7 and a new cam, the motor will make 650 hp with NO blower or turbo. But...

...the problem is right here. Pound for pound and actual physical dimensions of the engine are all that matter. Displacement does not matter, unless you are racing and it is limited by the class. The only reason it might matter is fuel consumption, but we have all agreed the LS7 is more economical on gas. So who cares if the displacement of the Ferrari motor is only 4.3 liters? If it weighs as much or more, is as big or bigger physically, puts out less hp and much less torque, and consumes more fuel, how is it so much a better engine?

And your comment about torque is not going to sway me. Anyone who has driven a car can tell you that torque is paramount, especially on the road.

Ferraris are not difficult to maintain: pick up phone, dial dealer, arrange pick-up, wait for finished car, arrange delivery, open wallet, drive car. Can be done from the living room. In fact, just try that with a GM dealer, and they will laugh you off the lot. But if you look at the driving time vs. in service time, the GM is going to win. And that's just the price you pay for an exotic, not necessarily a bad thing. But I do like to actually drive my cars.

I happen to enjoy working on my cars, and the newer F-cars are increasingly reliant on the SD2 and SD3, making it difficult for some tasks. But you can still do the routine things like fluids and such.

All in all, my opinion is that there is no free lunch. The exclusivity and exotic nature of Ferrari comes at a price. Of course Ferrari makes the most exciting car (to me) on earth, but some people act like there is no one with a high school diploma working at GM. GM has made some incredible advances (who's this Delco company that makes those fancy Ferrari shocks...) and they do a hell of a lot within the restraints that they are forced to live.

Most of the guys I know who drive Corvettes are car nuts. Are they not allowed to enjoy driving because the motor has a bigger displacement and a different sound than your Ferrari? Should they all just drive their cars to the crusher and buy Priuses so the select few who can afford it are able to get on with the frivolity of Ferraridom now unencumbered by all the Corvettes crowding the highways?

 

can't enjoy their corvette? I just said it's not a Ferrari, never has been, never will be. I don't care if it's the LS-69 engine, its still not a Ferrari and this is a Ferrari blog, not a Chevrolet blog... I am glad Corvette owners are mostly car nuts but they can take their nuts to the Chevrolet blog and quit trying to compare their generic robot made heap of steel to a Ferrari...

 

Timex makes a great watch that tells time quite accurately.

Let's face it, it is a badge thing. Ferrari has a snob appeal that a Corvette will never have in the USA. If you are a true car guy you can see a car for what it is worth regardless of the badge. If you are snob, then only the badge or label will do...

 

quote: "Let's face it, it is a badge thing. Ferrari has a snob appeal that a Corvette will never have in the USA. If you are a true car guy you can see a car for what it is worth regardless of the badge. If you are snob, then only the badge or label will do.."


Response:

Kind of like the difference between a kindergarten water color and a rembrandt? The funny thing is the Nissan is 40k cheaper than the vette, the ultimate in utility, no badge, etc.... So if it's all about functionality why buy the vette when you can have a lot more with the Nissan for less?

 

Cool! You should update your profile to indicate you have an F430.

 

correct.

actually, the z06 is the only vette NOT to use the delphi mag shocks. beats me why.

 

you forgot: is more top heavy, and more difficult and expensive to maintain.

 

Not true.... Show the numbers... it's 5.4 pounds per horsepower for both cars... I have already shown that and take your corvette lover stuff to the chevrolet blog... In other words, get your timex out of this Patek shop....

The Scuderia has 510 hp and 2775 pounds or 5.44 pounds per horsepower
The new ZR-1 Corvette 3400 pounds, 625hp, which equates to 5.44 pounds per horsepower, same as the Scuderia.

Corvette, slower than a GT-R, more expensive than a GT-R, won't last as long as a GT-R, nothing like a Ferrari...


Here's another test, take a Ferrari F430 and a brand new Vette ZR-1 and put them on a street corner. Which car gathers the most and the best looking women??? It won't be the stupid chevy, it has no character... It's just a car, a Ferrari is a Ferrari...

 

Guys isin't this getting like arguing which is the better ocean Atlantic or Pacific?

 

As I said in my last post, if Ferrari were the Atlantic and Chevrolet the Pacific, which coast would have the most and best looking women??? One is a hand crafted work of art, the other, a heap of steel.... Which would you rather have?

 

So, the criteria here is which car will attract the most and best looking women? When did that decide what made a good sports car?? Also, in my experience young males tend to be who would surround you. The women would be attracted to the Ferrari because of the money they hoped was in your wallet, and knowing you bought an expensive car, they would hope it was due to some feelings of inadequacy on your end, which would allow them to easily manipulate you into spending that money on them.

This argument/discussion is really not worth it. It's all just a bunch of opinions, with people taking the best parts of the car they favor and promoting those while overlooking the shortcomings. Take my wife for instance: You may think of her as some homely prude not worth the time of day. I think she's smokin' hot. I could give a rat's behind about what you think about her. I might see your girlfriend as a skanky plastic surgery worshipping gold-digger. Cars are the same way. If a guy loves his Corvette, he will like it no matter what you say. He might even consider your Ferrari to be a Trophy wife with fake boobs kind of car, but if that make's you happy.....

(PS- I love both, own one, and will have the other in the garage in a week or so. The cars, not my wife and your fake-boobed bimbo girlfriend)

 

I've never been impressed with Rembrandt myself. And I'd take that new Nissan in a heartbeat from what I've seen in the press so far! Can't wait to see one in person. But then again, I'm a car guy...

 

It's not about fake boobs... It's about Ferrari..... It's a work of art, it's the best, it's the most exclusive, it's the world champs, it's Enzo, it's the mystic, and most of all it's the car, the performance of the car and it's the Tubi music from the car. There is no other car on the planet with the mystic, the following, the performance and everyone knows it. It's something that Chevrolet, Mercedes, BMW and no other car company has never had and will never have and comparing GM and Ferrari is like comparing a sterile rat to a Stallion... You know it, I know it, everyone knows it. A ferrari car has a soul, a GM car is just that... A stupid car.... Ferrari are Formula one world champs, they will be again this year, they have been twice as many times as any other company in the world... Corvettes are one car from an automotive giant while every Ferrari is special... Again, Corvettes are just that, a stupid car.....

I am glad that Chevrolet has finally come up with a couple of competitive cars after 100 years of being in business, but Ferrari has been making competitive cars for it's entire history, and the Corvette is the top of the line at Chevrolet, the F430 is not, and there are more than a handful of Ferrari's that eat the sterile vette for lunch in fact my Maserati Coupe has similar performance to the Z06 vette in stock trim, and that's according to Car and Driver, not me...

All those who think their Corvette is something to behold, again park it along side a Ferrari, see which one get's the attention, it won't be the vette because it's just that, a stupid car and not a Ferrari...

There are plenty of old Ferrari's that get 10 to 11 million at auction because it's a Ferrari and soon if the economy keeps going the way it is and GM keeps building cars they way they do, they will be for sell for about the same price... The richest of the rich own Ferrari, could care less about Chevy, they are just that, a stupid car and not a Ferrari...

Ford is the only company that has tried to compete against Ferrari, they lost, GM knew they couldn't compete and they still can't and they know it. They compete on the street with the F430, not the Scud, and no way with the Enzo, the FXX, the FXX Evolutione, etc... Again, all Ferrari's have a soul, a corvette is a sterile piece of steel...

You can say this is just my opinion, but it's the opinion of 99% of the worlds population as well.. Give any person the option of owning a Corvette or an equivalent Ferrari, the Ferrari will be chosen...