The End of Ferrari as We've Known It

Light reading...

 

In no way do I think this new California means the end of Ferrari as we know it...

Ferrari represent racing success and technological advancement through its motor-sport. This reputation supports the brand.

Preemptive criticism will do no good in this situation for anybody. At least Jeremy Clarkson drives the cars while making his critiques. We have only seen a few photos of the studio-lit car. We have become arrogant - if only by this small amount of information - we can forecast a company's future. This is the automotive equivalent of palm reading.

Larger production numbers may be an aspect we disagree with. However, the day I begin to see a few Ferraris every day on the way to work in suburban Maryland and Delaware, I will worry. Supply and demand people, thats all this is. You have to focus on the economy as well. I'm no economist, however I am sure there is more wealth per capita than in 1970. You have to adjust to your market. So long as the world doesn't instantly win the lottery, I think we will be safe. Remember, the rich get richer; so Ferrari producing more cars in only in the company's business interest. If I am not mistaken, Ferrari are said to be pricing this no cheaper than the F430, correct? I have no worries, other than the idea of going into Greenwich and seeing more California's than Conti GT's.

Something tells me that when the journalists come out and acclaim this as a technologically amazing car with Porsche rivaling performance, we will bite our tongues.




Robert Burton said, "Many things happen between the cup and the lip." In this case, its a whole lot of disagreement and controversy. Lets just get a taste of this car first. In the fall, after many of us have seen one, a few of us bought one, we can talk again.





_J

 

mediocrity, isn't that what we're really talking about here?
just look at the united states.

 

+1

I feel Ferrari is well off track with the California, the styling is awful in my opinion but and I have this from a decent source its possible that Ferrari is testing public opinion and may make changes....well not sure if they can do a redesign but at least change those hideous exhausts!

My second problem relates to the name of the car, why pay hommage to one of the most beautiful car ever made with this ugly duckling.

Perhaps this wont go down well but I feel Ferrari has shamelessly pandered to the American market with this car, the soft top, the metal folding roof, maybe it even had cup holders.

I dont see a problem with 10 000 cars, lets be real, Porsche is making around 150 000 cars so relatively speaking Ferrari will still be exclusive...

 

no the scud wont, neither will any of the older models, but the brand will, just like porsche as a brand has, the part that once made them special.

 

As vocal as I have been about the new California being a good thing, I have to think back to the Enzo and deciding for myself, that it was not a car I wanted simply because I didn't care for its styling. I was quite happy to pay Enzo money and way beyond for vintage Ferraris but I never had the desire to own an Enzo.
I can understand how many on this forum feel about a car (the California) that simply doesn't turn them on.
The difference is that despite not liking the Enzo and thinking, very subjectively of course, that it strayed too far away from what I considered the core Ferrari fundamentals, it had no impact on my feelings for Ferrari, or certainly not for the subsequent 599GTB which I love with a passion and drive every day.
I guess the heart of the matter for me is that cars are very personal and very subjective and everyone is entitled to their opinion.

 

Very well said!

It has always been my point that there are many Ferrari models that I love and others that I don't love so much. One new model that I'm not so crazy about (as were the 308GT/4, Testarossa, F50, 599, and 612 in the past) changes nothing about the cumulative past history of the company, nor my feelings about Ferrari cars as a whole.

As you said, everyone's entitled to their opinion. If a friend has one of my less-favored models (and many do), and loves it with the same passion that I love mine, then I respect that. It's about driving, not "My car cost more than yours," or "My car is a TRUE Ferrari and yours isn't," or "You're not a true Tifosi if you don't love your car for the same reasons I do."

Lamenting the supposed "demise" of Ferrari, (or at least the end of its nebulous "soul" or whatever) on the basis of a single new model that does not appeal to some seems just a bit overwrought to me.

 

Agree 100%.

 

Spot on

 

good discussion..

Personally think the California should have remained 12cyl... It was meant to be a higher class alternative to the 599 much like the 612. I would have been happier if they used the layout of the 612 and simply converted it into a 2 seating roadster with a shorter wheelbase.

since the late 90's i've always said Porsche and Lamborghini were the most pure. When the 360 came out, I could sense that Ferrari were taking a new direction.

sure lamborghini is owned by a German company, but they remain as exotic as they were in the 80s - Porsche remain as balanced as they were since the 911 was built - whilst keeping the motorsport heritage quite evident (carrera GT once being the only 6-spd in its class, apart from zonda.)
Making the california spyder a v8 IS worse than Porsche developing an SUV (imo)... Porsche's justification for the Cayenne is BMW...

 

exactly.

anything which can be put into art forum is known to be subjective.... As far as desireability there is a key feature which some cars have and others lack...
F50 or Carrera Gt ?

both rather desireable, but both respectable for seperate reasons i would imagine. Opinions root from many factors.

 

They just need to call it a Dino (which certianly is not bad thing) because its handeling is going to be too soft and wet to be called a modern Ferrari. The sad thing is that this is the ugliest Ferrari (not that there will ever be an ugly Ferrari) to date. It looks like a tramps hat, I would have preferred the style to be more bland like a 612.

 

I agree. I always find it interesting how much "ownership" Ferrari owners and enthusiasts seem to feel for the brand. Everyone seems to have their own idea of exactly what constitutes a "true Ferrari," and feel it's their right to get upset if the company does something outside of their idea of what Ferrari is.

The only other company I can think of with this sort of loyalty is Apple.

 

I would think that Ferrari is positioning itself to stay alive and that is all. If all the people that were pi55ed off about Ferrari's new California decided to abandon F-cars all together, there would be a whole new set of people waiting in line at the dealership to buy the cars. Look at Porsche and the 996 and 997. All the so called purists claim that the 993 was the last true Porsche. While that may be true in their eyes, they are encapsulated thier own reality of what Porsche means to them and not "who is going to buy our cars in 5 or 10 years: as is Porsche mgmt. Ferrari is in the same boat. They have an obligation to their shareholders, their dealer network and lastly the Ferrari buying public. CAFE restrictions alone are going to kill Ferrari in the US if they do not do something to prevent it, unless people are happy being taxed to their eyeballs to own one. I hate to be the bearer of bad news but Enzo is no longer running the company and his ideals, which were perfect for forming and sustaining the comany for 40 +/- years do not apply. When I go to the grocery store and see 4 -5 Ferraris in the parking lot then i will no longer consider them exclusive. Until then I am going to keep hoping they have continued success in racing and road car sales while I save my $$$ so I can buy one again soon.

 

This is a very valid point in this issue.

Ferrari's exclusivity does denote a bit of "stock" given in each purchase of an Fcar, and if I understand correctly, if the company gets larger there will grow a less intimate connection felt personally with the company. This is understandable.

You relate it to Apple. Now, I doubt there are as many Ferrari owners as Mac users, and if Apple customers have say in the production of a new computer. What do you propose should be done then?



_J

 

Apple's customers have NO say in the design of new computers. Steve Jobs is all about "I know what the customer wants better than he or she does, so we're doing it my way." Not that different from Ferrari, if you think about it. And, in all honesty, Steve's track record has been pretty good. As was Enzo's, who had a similar approach.

And, I'm not proposing that anything be done. I just think it's interesting.

 

I concur. Too common, too fat, too non-descript. BMW lost its way.

Footnote: There are Ferraris to drive, and Ferraris that get parked and dusted. In practical terms, I'd put the 360 Spider and 365 California in completely different categories. I love the vintage cars, but realistically whenever I go to an FOC gathering my 328 is the oldest car that actually gets driven to/from the event. So, all this comparing the new California to a Lusso or LM is pointless.

I concur. The 599/612 have the golf club-hauling duties covered, and can pack some groceries. The F430 is a big sports car. A small, lean ferocious sports car would have been a better move.

Most people cannot afford a 20 year old Ferrari unless it is a neglected piece of crap on eBay. Don't get the idea that just because people on FChat shrug off $5000 service bills that anyone can pick up a 348/Mondial and actually keep it in top running condition. The average income in the United States is less than the price of an average used 348.

I agree. Platform sharing used to be for Ford/GM/Chrysler, lower end European marques (Fiat/VW) and corporate abominations like British Leyland. I'm not a Lambo guy, but I have been in the Miura, Countach and Diablo, and as good a car as the Gallardo is it's just a very good car that makes a great noise. Porsche makes great cars, but the 987/997 series feels very refined and rational, whereas the old 993 felt like an angry machine. I'm starting to think that only workshop-type or 'start-up' carmakers can produce an exotic.

Enzo Ferrari kept the spirit alive, and Ferrari isn't that far gone. But the F430 is the only car they sell that looks like it's motorsports-ready.

 

great thread.

My feelings as a non owner (currently) are that Ferrari represents excitement and state of the art in auto technology.

The form of the car has to come second to the performance characteristics. Function....Form. When I get into a Ferrari I want pure adrenalin and very high technology. Of course I want it to be beautiful as well, but as everyone on this forum will attest, you can't argue taste. You can, however argue technology.

I sincerely hope that the Enzo successor is a <2500 lbs TT V8 because that would mean a brutally fast car, and this refers back to my initial reasons for desiring ownership of the marque.

 

LOL, I was laughing when I wrote that because of just how different the two models are. But I figured for argument's sake - and for the sake of trying to make a point - I'd throw it out there anyway. You called me on it and you're absolutely right.

Like you said, there are Ferraris to drive, and Ferraris that get parked and dusted. But I think all of them should be driven - and occasionally parked and dusted. The automobile is a relatively new thing in terms of human history, and at the rate that technology is going, we'll see new automotive marvels the likes we've never dreamed in just a few years. Forget drum brakes to discs; you and I will witness the birth of flying cars before we die.

I bet, back when Ferrari first started making road cars, those few die hard, Ferrari-loving racing enthusiasts were screaming "Sellout! Great, now Enzo's going to make road cars and everyone will have one. A bunch of posers who think they can race." But Ferrari did it for a reason: to finance the continuance of the Scuderia. And now, with the introduction of Ferrari's "entry level" California, thoughts like those portrayed in this very thread are popping up all over the place. But the bottom line today is the same as the bottom line fifty years ago.

PS Thank you for driving your car to and from events. I hope that inspires others to follow suit.

 

Most sensible comment so far. All this bickering...over a car that apparently no one wants. Buy the Ferrari that you like and drive on down the road--that's all that matters.

The point is that Ferrari are first and foremost a business.

The best part about it? Their business model: sucker in as many idiots as possible with the alure of motorsport prestige, everyday celebrity status, and speed, then charge those willing to pay a quarter of a million bucks for something that does point A to point B no more efficiently than the man in the Fiat next them. And most importantly: don't ever, ever let the customer think you value money (gasp!) over the passion you so intimately share with him...

I didn't say I wasn't a sucker... I'm just making a point.

IMHO: As I was thinking over this topic of discussion in the shower something quite silly dawned on me, centered around my new love affair with the 328: I want one because it's cheap. I don't give a damn how exclusive it is or who looks at me when I'm driving it. I want one because it's a Ferrari and because I could potentially own one--it does the same thing as the new 599. It might not be as fast, but it thrills me no less.

Edit: and I am quite satisfied with my 1000th post, TYVM.

 

No.

It shouldn't be for yourself, "first and foremost." It should be for yourself ONLY.

My job, my house, and everything else I do takes a lot of other people into account. My car is the ONE thing that is for me and for me only.

 

To say the 430 is not beatiful is just unjust and untrue. I find it one of the most beautiful Ferraris of the last 25 years.

Most of my friends prefer it over the 80s and 90s overstyled cars as well.


IMHO

Mark

 

I've seen that many in the parking lot at my grocery store. Problem with shopping in Marin County, California.

Art

 

. . . AND, before you assault my lack of taste, class, or intelligence, just remember that this is my OPINION.

Remember, opinion? We all learned the difference between facts and opinions in second grade. Don't like the 550's looks? Well, I think they're all right. The 612 seems a bit bulky to you? Yeah, I can see that.

BFD.

If you've got a rust-and-primer mid 70s Camaro that you are as passionate about as I am about my Ferrari, then I'm with you.

Guys. Ferrari has ALWAYS made some cars that certain people like better than others. If you don't like a current model or two, fine. But it's not a harbinger of the Apocalypse. It really isn't.

See post #83.