Here's an installed pic from the driver side... And I should explain the rest...saran wrap to keep dust out, red fixture holds the dial indicator base for measuring valve lift, and the air valve isn't tight yet (and had it powder coated, high temp) Image Unavailable, Please Login
just got mine back from the ceramic coater today--Install in 2 weeks!! Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Here is a pic of the heat shields that we fabricated for the alternator, axle boots and motor mounts. the customer wanted the fabspeed headers wrapped as well. regards, Jim Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Looks good Robbie .............. It works very well on mild steel.....but ..... I have seen this coating flake off of stainless ... ..... after how many hours/miles I do not know ...... though at the rate you drive your 355 ....... it should last a loooooooong time . That is called 'cermachrome' and from what I recall it is good for about 1700F. It may get more flat with use. I prefer the 'matte nero' ceramic ....... it will go to 2200F........
Fabspeed update....... A lot of good information in this thread! And as well a lot of b.s. from Mr. Fabspeed himself I'm afraid. Pages and pages back he refers to not having any problems with these headers in extremely hot climates and mentions Dubai specifically. These are most likely my headers and he makes assumptions with out talking to the customer. Typical salesman! Well truth is they DO have problems. I mean come on and face reality guys, we are talking general physics here. Steel, heat, heat transfer, confined area.......all elements for something "not good". In Dubai where the ambient temp right now is 50 degrees C, these headers will cook anything 6" away from them and generally increase engine bay temps WAY beyond an acceptable limit. I have even had vapor lock in the fuel system aside from cooking alternators and God only knows what else. As nice as they look, they don't look like that for long. So if you actually drive your 355 and it just isn't holding down the floor in your garage like some of these Concours Babies......then they will end up looking like all other SS headers and turn wonderful shades of golds and blues and greens and rust if they get wet while hot. Personally I would wrap AND coat them. Coating or wrapping is only effective in conjunction with heat shields abound and then that is a difficult task unless the engine is out.....can be accomplished though. I shielded many little goodies but it was difficult. I have only wrapped mine but am leaning toward pulling them off and having them coated as well then I'll wrap them back up again. The alternator is particularly sensitive and the "heat soak" is incredible. I have had the opportunity to experiment with a "bad out of the box" Ferrari Original Part that was only putting out 12.7 volts, so I though, "It's screwed already so why not!" Without a heat shield the voltage drop was 12.7v down to 9.2V. Obviously not conducive to running the electrics. Within 30 minutes of starting the engine, loading up all the electrics and letting it idle, the alternator output had dropped to 9.2V. Next day I fabbed up a shield and ran the same test with the end result being much the same but it took 45 - 50 minutes instead of 30. And these results are WITH the headers being wrapped! Performance numbers. Here's the good part. Let's just stay "not stellar" by any means. Initially installed to factory cats, factory air boxes with K&N filters and Tella-Tubi "priced-beyond-performance-trade-off" exhaust, the horsepower gain was 3 - 4% over stock manifolds. This however can be viewed as a good thing as it is clear evidence that Ferrari has done some wonderful engineering on the heads and intake and they are nearly as efficient as possible right out of the factory. You have to remember that header manufacturers that claim gains of 10 - 15% (some claim higher numbers) know damn well that ANY header is a "crutch" for typically lackluster OEM head and intake performance but you should NEVER hope for such a return on a Ferrari engine. Currently my 355 has morphed from the set up listed above to now include a GruppeM airbox, Quicksilver exhaust and cat replacement tubes and re-programmed ECU by Dimex. Now we are kicking so serious butt!!! The last dyno 2 weeks ago put the Rosso Skateboard at an impressive 493.8 hp at the wheels. Talk about YUM factor. I have a difficult time keeping the 325/25/20 Yokos hooked up! But that is all part of the fun. Dimex are convinced we can get it over 500HP by tweaking the ECU a few more times. Oh and by the way, the new 9,500 redline is AWESOME! I'll upload some pics when the project is complete. The Rosso Rocket is probably the easiest project car I have done to date. Don't let people fool you with the old......"Ohhhhhhh, but Ferrari's are so complex." Bullpucky!!!! Take one apart and find out for yourself.
Doc Bob ! What else did you do to the motor I would love to see the pics and dyno sheets to prove your claim. 493 HP is alot for just your mods that you have posted. Have you done inside mods to the motor. If so what was done. I'm not putting your claims down I would like to know and I'm sure everybody on this site wants to know. I have seen full raced out f355 race cars with hp around 480hp and that was with full stand alone Motec ecu and the owner is Redcar1 I will show pics of the car and It is also on youtube.com running. I just find it very hard that Dimex ecu and the mods that you have done are pushing 490. By the way putting down Fabspeed is not good on this site with out proof not saying there product is the best. But for the price it could not be beat. They have been in mag shootouts and have won hands down. So you need to prove your claims like they need to prove theres even if there headers make zero Hp they are priced just right compared to other headers out there. I have not heard anybody having major problems with there headers at all. If its that hot were you live you need to move we all know temps of the fcars are problems but that is Ferrari's problem not the aftermarket that try to cut cost for all of us. Now all I'm really saying is prove it and post the proof . bad mouthing people on the this site without proof of them doing something wrong is wrong itself. But I really hope you car is pushing your claims Hope to see pics and dyno sheets and engine specs meaning mods inside and out.I can't wait. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Those few mods and 493HP at the wheels-----I guess I have something to look forward to since my car is basically the same setup----GruppeM and ECU reflash will happen soon...
its redcar1 personal car he is on this site he could give you the vin I did not take the photos there off this site it mite aready be on your site.
There is a trick with methanol injection as well. Some day I will write it up and post it. Not an easy mod but well worth the time and scratched knuckles.
Let me first broach the subject of Craig's petulant crucifixion and reverse context diatribe. The primary context of my post Sir Craig was to point out a discrepancy in the posts from Fabspeed who claim to have no problems with heat when asked the question numerous times about the heat issue. Of course they will claim this since their product, the header, has no problems with the heat. They did not answer the question as it was intended but maybe not phrased entirely word for word as accurately as it could have been, but the fact remains that all F355 owners and forum participants probably knew the exact context of the question which maybe could have been phrased Will the heat from your headers adversely affect any component(s) in my engine bay? Should I coat them? Should I wrap them? Should I do both? Or can I in fact run them open in free air? What will be the result if I do coat them or wrap them? To paraphrase, Fabspeed stated that they have no problems that they are aware of even in hot climates such as Arizona and Dubai. This is a safe answer for them since they are not aware of any problems because they didnt do the field research to determine the level of customer satisfaction and or technical feedback. In the very least, they never called me and I own the headers in Dubai that they are referring to! Having said that, lets just for a minute focus on one basic concept. Why do you think Ferrari shielded the OEM manifolds? What would make us Shade Tree Mechanics think that we should apply an unshielded manifold if for a moment we give Ferrari Engineers the benefit of doubt and believe that the heat-shielding is an absolute need? But heres an even better question, what makes FabSpeed believe that they are better engineers than Ferrari Engineers and outwardly say that they have no problems with heat? Now consider the physics. When you measure the surface area of the OEM manifolds and the surface area of the FabSpeed you will notice that FabSpeed has introduced approximately 15 17% more surface area and this is primarily due to longer runners and a larger collector. Obviously their CAD sims and mandrel program determined outputs slightly different than Ferrari, but then Ferrari wasnt shooting for a 100% competition manifold. So now you have not only a completely open manifold with no heat shielding but it is also introducing into the engine bay 15 17% more hot steel; meaning much more heat than the OEM manifolds. Even the light over Homer Simpsons head is going on at this point. It is up to each Shade Tree Mechanic to determine if his car and engine bay components will withstand that additional dynamic heat loading given his geographic location. The answer in Dubai is quite clearly NO! Our ambient is far too high and serious bad things happen in the engine bay. Ive never had an alternator failure until installing the FabSpeeds which are not coated and not wrapped. I have never had a vapor lock in the fuel system until I installed the FabSpeeds. I have never had to recharge my air conditioning 3 times in one summer until I installed the FabSpeeds. Now you can take the above paragraph and insert the word headers for FabSpeed since you will get the same results from all headers. Metal is metal, heat is heat, physics are physics. In Alaska probably no problem with naked FabSpeeds installed but in Dubai ..big problems. Seattle, maybe naked is good, Miami maybe not so good. Whos to know? The actual answer is the header manufacturer if they have done their R & D properly and not just pumping out bright shiny manifolds off of their mandrel machine. They should know what temps will be generated and transferred and at what distances the temps will be less and less or in the very least what is a safe distance to have a component such as an alternator. They should also have data on how the generated temps are affected by increased or decreased ambients. You guys asked a lot of good questions, unfortunately the answers were not up to par in my engineering books at all. Basic common sense dictates that you shouldnt install any header into a tight engine bay like that of the 355 and expect that all will be well for the next decade or even worse, believe the salesman when he tells you that everything will be fine. Im just sorry I wasnt around at the beginning of the thread to drill down and get the correct answers from them. After 30 years of building performance cars I have learnt that I should always assume each and every after-market part manufacturer is a liar until he proves his claims before I buy and apply the product. Oh and Sir Craig, I wasnt bad mouthing FabSpeed as you so readily put it, I was merely pointing out the obvious that apparently wasnt so obvious to you, probably because you dont even own a 355. However, let me point out what the manufacturer in question didnt tell you, unless I missed it somewhere in all the mountains of posts. There is sound engineering and physics reasoning for coating and or wrapping but the general race world leans to coating both inside and out primarily because wrapping ends up being an element that requires constant attention. The one thing that is most commonly overlooked or misunderstood is the heat retention in the exhaust pipes (runners and collector(s) mostly). We have to remember that as soon as the combusted gases leave the chamber they start to cool down. As they cool they lose velocity and the scavenging effect is reduced. If the temperature of the gases inside the pipe is kept as high as possible the net effect will be greater velocity, greater pressure drop in the exhaust system and higher overall efficiency from the header AND the head AND the intake manifold. Yes, I could feel you cringing at the idea of keeping the heat as high as possible but it is necessary for efficiency. Many racers coat inside and out with ceramic and then as well wrap with a high quality braided and sandwiched wrap that is akin to the insulation material used on the space shuttle. Talk about pricy! But it works! At the end of the day each Shade Tree Mechanic has to decide what he can live with. If you run those FabSpeeds naked you not only run the risk of heat-damaged components in an already astronomically hot engine bay but as well you will be running a less efficient header which effects the head and the intake manifold adversely. Now can you see the underlying reason that everyone in this forum missed, for Ferrari running a fully enclosed heat-shield? You got it ..fuel mixture/ burn efficiency! How does this translate? Into POWER. Bottom line is, coat or wrap them at a minimum or both and still protect any areas that maybe of concern like Dr_Ferrari did. That was a classic using your head perfect install by all means. Kudos! The pictures I have attached are of my not-so-FabSpeeds after about 60 hours of use. I question the quality of the stainless they use as I can feel pitting on the outside surface. At the end of the day I really dont care about the appearance like others in the Ferrari world will, but be forewarned if you run these things naked that they will change color and if they do happen to get wet while hot they will gain a little rust and even more wonderful shades of blue, gold, green, etc. Ceramic coating may help this although the local metallurgist here says only temporarily. I think that temporarily is a relative term. My 355 is a daily driver and I thrash it like it is meant to be thrashed. The color of the headers means nothing to me, in fact, Im looking forward to giving it that racer-look with wrapped headers and shielding everywhere. So Sir Craig, next time you go beaking off at someone, maybe temper your rather non-concise points of view and running off to the protection of someone elses F-car. Obviously my diagnosis is that you are suffering from an acute case of P-Envy which can be extrapolated as penis-envy or power-envy. Whichever the case may be, a F355 prescription should cure you. As for substantiating my power claims to satisfy your otherwise limp power member ..how I get that power is my secret until such time as I decide it is necessary to share it with other enthusiasts, rather than be goaded into it by a sniveling wannabe poser. Come back when you have as much time wrenching on F-cars as I have then maybe Ill throw you a bone of credibility. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Good post Bob, thanks for the contribution. Granted your ambient situation is extreme, but I agree 100% on the heat transfer logic. That's why I went coated inside and out and made up a few shields (alternator, motor mounts). Also extra reflective insulating wrap on those AC lines, fuel lines, brake lines, oil lines, fuel filter, etc. I'm hoping the coating will last pretty well on the headers, I have the exact same thing on my STi headers and it still looks pretty good (no discoloration) after a few years of hard running in all seasons (with a bigger turbo). I've been trying to come up with a way to mount some type of metal reflective heat shielding around the headers. This would be a small step towards blocking radiant heat and minimizing the cooling airflow running over the headers. The way I'm thinking of it is how can I get as much heat as possible to exit through the exhaust tips rather than out the vents. Let's be honest - aftermarket headers are popular because the OEM's are known to fail and cost 3x as much! We just need to find a better way to keep 'em hot.
Now you're talkin'!!! Find way to keep them hot and in other words, drop all the heat transfer into the engine bay AND gain efficiency from the intake out through the exhaust! This is why you see such short headers leading to short straight pipes on race cars. The hotter the exhaust temp exiting the more efficient your set-up is. In other words.....get the heat out as soon as possible. Like in a top fuel dragster for instance......pipes exiting the manifold and pointing into the sky literally immediately. Best bet would be to punch four holes in each fender well and exit the pipes straight from the head toward the curious on-lookers. EPA might have a disagreement with you on that mod though.
Doc ! Doc ! Doc ! Give me a break you are on here talking about 30 years of building performance cars. WOW!!! That's longer then I've been alive. Then you would also known that if Ferrari put heat guards on there headers that you would need to at least coat and wrap the fabspeed headers, But you must have just been dreaming about the 490 hp and forgot to coat them. Hmm!!! 490 hp you should have know the motor was going to get red hot smart guy. Also you talk about testing on the fabspeed headers testing takes money, money that you did not spend on those headers if they had did hours & hours of testing the headers would have cost aton more Doc. Any smart guy would have known this You should have know this when you seen the fare price of the headers. But you did not, That is why you are the only wise guy on here that did not aleast coat or wrap the headers and the headers look the way they look. And you talk about BS , your post is full of it. I really don't know where to start. And as for OWNING an FCAR IF I wanted one I could have one but I'm designing a house to be built right now, and I don't have time to play it would be nice. And you really killed me when you went there ,Your the second Fool that has. There are sponsors who have jump in on the last Fool and even said that I spend more money then any of there f355 customers do on Carbon fiber parts alone so there is your " HINT " . So don't talk about what you don't know about. We all know you don't have to be rich to own a F355 you have to be rich to restore it. FULL carbon fiber restore. Yes It will take me time but hell I'm not even 30 yet. But your right about one thing Doc. The F355 prescription when built will cure me. LOL!!!
I have read the posts and agree that heat is a problem with the fabspeed headers. How much would it really cost for a welding shop to wrap the fabspeed manifolds in fiberglass matting and heat shielding? Has anyone tried to do this? The factory headers are not an option due to their poor quality and high failure rate.....I think that we all agree on this. I went to the Tubi style web site and they sell tubi headers , with insulation and metal heat shieilds. Unfortunately there are no prices listed there and the email I sent them came back 'un-deliverable'. Has anyone here purchased the tubi style headers with insulation? If so what is the pricing and 'survival' rate of these headers?
I also live in a place where it gets upwards of 120F. Mine isn't a DD but I do drive it every week. My fabspeed headers will be here tomorrow, and I am also worried about the heat.. I am sending them out to get coated inside and out. I know most of you with these headers don't live in a place like me or "Docbob" but is anyone else having any problems with heat? Even if you only coated them? The mech. is also going to make a heat shield for the alt. Do I really need to wrap them also? Or should the coating be enough? Thanks, Reg
When the free replacements on the 355 fail ( and they will ). The Fabspeeds look like the way to go. I'll have them ceramic coated in/ out, wrap them then install the factory heatsheilding on them. Ya, it might be some extra work, but they will perform as they should and keep the engine bay heat down. Darrell.
I live in Arizona and have been running my Fabspeeds "naked" for about 1000 miles, many of them in traffic during the hot summer months. My car is stock but includes Mille Millia cats with Tubi muffler. I made a shield for the alternator and the plastic tubes that cover the brake lines. Just recently completed a 400 mile drive which included several hours in the desert on a 105 degree day followed by a spirited 2.5 hour non-stop mountain climb to 8000 feet. This mountain climb included 450+ slow speed turns, many of which were taken at 5000 to 7000 RPM. Now this is not full race testing by any means, but the combination of high heat plus sustained high RPMs and slow speeds represent a pretty tough exercise for the street. Not only that, is was great fun! To date I have experienced no heat issues with my car. I do not notice the engine compartment running any hotter than before. In fact, it doesn't seem to hold the heat in as much as it did before. The old headers acted like "heat sinks" holding in a lot of heat for long time. The Fabspeeds cool down much quicker. This is probably not the best situation performance wise, but it gives me some confidence that I am not going to set my garage on fire when I park the car. Yes, the polished surface of the headers has faded and now matches the rest of the exhaust system. I knew that was going to be the case when I bought them. Overall, I am happy with my Fabspeeds. If the looks of the pipes is a concern to you, I recommend going with the ceramic coating. They will definately look good for a long time. Go ahead and do the whole system like Uconn Husky did. As for wrapping the headers, the advantages gained wrapping them needs to be weighed against the increased corrosion that will take place.
I said it before and I will say it again. I will never put naked pipes under my hood. They were shielded for a reason. If you want your OEM headers to last then remove the cats. Its as simple as that. You can take it one step further and remove the bypass valve and replace it with the straight challenge pipe. Like Doc said...get the heat out as fast as possible and get it out through the pipes. If you dont like the OEM headers then use the Tubi headers...They are shielded and run around $4 thousand to $5 thousand. There is a reason why the naked headers are cheap and many here will find out why in about 4 to 6 years.......Im not taking that chance simple to save a couple thousand.
