Maserati Khamsin

On the subject of US car conversiosn here is an odd one:

It has been sitting under the Avenue Foch near the arch of triumph in Parsis for I don't know how long. I walked by 5 or 6 times and it was always there (spring 2007) I was frustrated that
I did not have a way to find out the chassis number as the plate on the dash (which is normally fitted to US cars) was removed and finally found the chassis number when I asked the Poulain le Fur Artcurial to consult their archives for any Khamsins and suddenly there it was: they had sold it years earlier it was AM120US1144. In fact Walter's records which I received this week do indicate it is owned by a Spaniard.

Unfortunate to see it gathering dust like that but such is the life of most classic cars.

Look at the front: they cut a hole on each side of a US VERSION front bumper to insert the lights! Strange...the wheels are not very attractive in my view but...
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Bob, Bob,....you know that I disagree!!! What the US-Gov. did with all this great cars from the 70ies is a visual shame! But if you change that "specs" - its not original anymore! So....!
Yes, they are no race cars (see my answer to your post in the 3500 GT-thread!) - but they are still cars from one of the greates manufacturer of all time! Just my 3 cents....!

Ciao!
Walter

 

That ... is a god awful butcher job. It's rear of the Khamsin that looks so bad with these bumpers though. There are even worse examples such as the Espada with rubber bumpers?

 

Not very specific Walter except that you're saying it's non original. Which in this case is probably considered a good thing.
It was not the US Government's fault. Those regulations are even more stringent today. The car companies simply couldn't adapt very well quickly enough. There probably should have been a waiver for these cars though. Some like Ferrari and Detomaso did better with it than others. Maserati and Lamborghini were the worst. Standard US cars also had some ugly models back then. Such is the price of progress.

Bob S.

 

Well 1144 did have the back end converted to Euro spec. The front work is huh misguided but it can be sorted in future with a proper Euro front bumper.

 

Marc,

Yes, #404 is the Autosalon Stich car.
To the Salzburg Khamsin I have only a telefon no.: 0043 664 3572525. My informatio about the car is: first owner was a jeweler from Linz,Austria. Now it belongs a man in Salzburg and is for sale.
Yesterday I meet Walter Müller to see his K #056, please see the pics enclosed.

Can somebody help me with the color code from agento auteil met.

Regards, Helmut
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tks very much for explanations

 

Helmut:

Excellent thank you!

Here are all the color codes:

http://www.maseratikhamsinregistry.com/specs_1.html

Best regards,

Marc

 

Emilio:

This might help you:

http://www.maseratikhamsinregistry.com/bumper_kit.html

Best regards,

Marc

 

Walter:

Yes of course money no object I would buy a Euro 5 speed but I fel a US car that has been converted fully back to Euro spec, even including sidelights, carries no stigma but each person has a right to feel and think about this in his own way.

Best regards,

Marc

 

Mark,
..of course! But nobody can deny the difference shown and confirmed in the VIN(s). Converted cars are always cars with "a story".

Ciao!
Walter

 

Every car has story Walter. Bar none. What Mark describes seems to me to be a good story as long as the work has been done well and correctly.
Virtually every vintage race car has serious mechanical mods done to them. Now a car with wrong engine type or number is much more of a real story for the ultimate collector.

People also change colors on famous cars all the time.

Isn't that much more of an issue, because it's at odds with the factory records, than whether it was originally delivered to the USA with ugly bumpers and different side lights?
Personally, I don't find the side lights that big a deal.

Or how about cars restored to a quality level nowhere close to that of the factory?

I don't just mean the uber Pebble Beach stuff but as an example let's look at Boras. The engine compartments of those cars were probably the worst Maserati ever did.
If you remove the undercoating in some areas you will find no paint at all underneath. To be truly authentic an extremist might want the exact same crappy appearance.
I doubt that most would do that and fewer still would want to by the car later on.

In 1992 several of us had this exact discussion with Ing. Giulio Alfieri at Concourso Italiano while looking at my newly restored Bora. Now perhaps I went a bit overboard because I
put in brushed stainless steel heat shields instead of the rumpled aluminum ones that had asbestos riveted to the back side and were haphazardly painted flat black. Most of the paint flaking off! All the other finishes, bolt plating colors wire and hoses were very close to original except where they had used poor materials.

So he looked at my car and exclaimed "Nuevo, better than nuevo!" then went on to explain that back then they weren't interested in making these cars last more than 4-5 years and then they expected their "clients" to simply buy new ones. So some things they did not do ... I'll say!

He was astounded that all these old Maserati GT cars were still around and in such wonderful condition.

Personally I find these sort of "stories" to be good ones but I know there are many examples of people having gone too far. In my case if someone wants to paint my heat shields flat black it's no big deal. I even kept all the old ones.

If you wish to advise people that such cars are tainted then that's certainly your right just don't expect people to always agree with you or think that's always the last word on this subject.

I find it to be in the nit picking realm when you consider the condition of most Maser GT cars out there.

Respectfully and cheerfully

Bob S. :>)

 

Found this nice sketch (from Bertone probably) today.

Philippe
www.lamborghinimiura.com
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Bob, ...its strange: first you say Khamsins (etc.) are no race cars and so don`t deserve VIN-research and then in your last post you compare race cars to Khamsins....

So -again- we agree to disagree!

Ciao!
Walter

 

Marc,
There is only 1 person preventing the clubs from merging and that person has been the cause of all the problems for over 10 years. On the West Coast the clubs work together and do events together. But not on the East Coast, the major MCI event on the East Coast will get over 40 Maseratis, at TMC's big event they are lucky to get 10. And the East Coast is the Home of TMC, what does that tell you?

There was a framework for a merger written over 2 years ago. It was stopped by 1 person.

I will agree with you that both VCM and il Tridente are nice magazines, the difference is that VCM is a nice magazine put together for Maserati owners, il Tridente is a nice magazine put together so the editor can glorify himself with winning awards that he can plaster all over the club's website and for the most part that is the only time the website gets updated.

What is amusing is the fact that the club always claims that it doesn't have the funds to do anything, but seems to find enough money to enter multiple categories for awards that charge per category enter. And it isn't cheap per category.

Again until someone within TMC grows a set of balls, it will continue to be a Current Problem that prevents the Maserati Community in the US from coming together.



Joe

 

Go back and re-read it Walter.

 

This very nice "speed"-photo was in 1975 on the cover of "Auto, Motor and Sport", the biggest EU-car magzine. We got permission to use it also on the cover of the German Club-magazine in 2000.

Unfortunately we do not know the VIN of this Khamsin as the plate came from a different Italian car (that was told to me by one of the journalists who took the feature for AMS).

Ciao!
Walter
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Joe: I appreciate you thoughts, as I mentioned I am not in the US so not in a position to do something about it but perhaps you might want to start a thread about it and invite the various parties to express their points? Just a thought.

I would like to please keep this thread going for Khamsin's only without the politics.

Walter:

Thank you for that, very nice photo!

Late last night I counted all the chassis numbers on which I now have information thanks to your list and mine and the total is 272 cars! 63% of the 430! Of course as in most registries there is a lot of info on a few cars and a bit of info on many cars but there is definitely a feeling of having crossed the top of the moutain: like when you have done more than half a puzzle it suddenly becomes easier because you can see the big picture, I am now more and more understanding: hah that car was the one that was with that person in that country and is now there etc etc. Of course there were cars we both had info on, cars you had info on, cars I had info on.

Anyway it is quite exciting to make major headway like that!

Best regards,

Marc

 

Philippe:

Thank you for that: yes it was Marcello Gandini's work for Bertone. He confirmed to me that he started the Khamsin from the Uracco design, something I had suspected for some time: if you look at the front profile ahead of the front wheels it is practically the same design. He alos got the rear glas idea from the Marzal and the the Espada but that was obvious.

Best regards

Marc

 

Marc, thanks for your kind thoughts!
Yes, that was/is my intention to collect infos about every car I come across to fill up its individual history.

If someone doesn`t care about the history of his historic car - he doesn`t deserve a classic car! Its that simple. Nobody needs to own a classic car today! So, what interest us is history and/or the looks. The looks alone is -IMO- a little poor decision to own such a classic car!

Just my 3.5 cents!

Ciao!
walter

 

Marc,
Now that you've taken care of a majority of the Khamsins, I'm glad to hear that you are also going to expand to cover the Ghiblis and Boras.


Joe

 

?! I never said or wrote that...and there is a lot more to be done. The hard part now is to find the really buried cars, I mean to say those in private ownership that have been totally unknown to the Maser club community and then to determine which ones no longer exist: just 3 examples of destroyed cars but no chassis number:

-See the mystery cars section in my website: that car totally destroyed in a very high speed chrash in the middle east: which chassis number.
-The car at MIE which had its nose terminally crushed by a container or a forklift drop (not at MIE) they no longer have it: which chassis number.
-A red Khamsin that burned completely in the New York area in the 80's: which chassis number.

Then....there is the story of the stolen Khamsin.....and of this man who showed me pictures of a Khamsin of the same color tucked away, in the back of his dusty warehouse in the same part of the world but never gave me the chassis number despite the fact that I asked numerous times....

Then there are all the cars that rusted beyond repair in England, the climate of which does not agree with zero rust proofing.

 

And here I thought he had copied it from the Honda Civic. ;>))

 

Shocking thought sir!

 

It is only fitting that post #300 should be a photo of the genius who when working for Bertone has penned so many cars, many of which have received much publicity, some of which like the Khamsin, due to being born at the wrong time, have not.

This is a photo of of him in November at his home near Turin when he kindly hosted us for an interview.

A very interesting man, as modest and dare I say shy as he is talented. It was a very special day.

Best regards,

Marc
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