Why does Bourdais suck? | Page 2 | FerrariChat

Why does Bourdais suck?

Discussion in 'Other Racing' started by robert_c, Jun 10, 2008.

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  1. DM18

    DM18 F1 Rookie

    Apr 29, 2005
    4,725
    Hong Kong
    That doesn't make any difference now with simulators. Look at Hamilton in his rookie season - he won his first race in Montreal and had never even seen the track
     
  2. gsjohnson

    gsjohnson Formula 3

    Feb 25, 2008
    2,291
    Woodland Hills, CA
    Full Name:
    GS Johnson
    Different car. Apples and Oranges...
     
  3. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ

    Jun 3, 2006
    27,889

    True, but Senna was on the way UP then. It was plain to see that he was extracting more performance than his team mates from a mediocre car.

    Also, when did Senna win in a Toleman? His better position was 2nd at Monaco, I believe.

    Bourdais was already an established driver, with several championships in a different series, when he stepped in a second rate team with an inferior car.
    Counter performances can only affect his reputation in the long term.
    People don't think about the Toro Rosso car, but say: "What's wrong with Bourdais? Why can't he deliver?".
     
  4. gsjohnson

    gsjohnson Formula 3

    Feb 25, 2008
    2,291
    Woodland Hills, CA
    Full Name:
    GS Johnson
    My error. You are correct, it was a 2nd place finish. But, it seemed like a victory. He was catching Prost in the rain at the time when the race was shortened due to what the steward viewed as a flooded and unsafe track. It seemed like it was a sure victory for him at the time the race was stopped.
     
  5. smart_alek

    smart_alek Formula Junior

    Jun 12, 2005
    455
    Ontario, Canada
    Full Name:
    Alex
    He's actually a 4 time champion.

    Senna was driving in a different era. These days, the car makes much more of a difference.
     
  6. Senna3xWC

    Senna3xWC F1 Rookie

    Nov 30, 2006
    3,152
    NYC
    Nonsense.

    The car has always been important. If you weren't driving a McLaren in 1988-1989, you weren't winning. Similarly if you weren't driving a Williams throughout much of the early 1990s, you weren't winning.

    F1 today is no different than F1 20 years ago, the car is an enormously important part of the equation. At the beginning of the season you could always point to a couple of teams and say that the championship will come down to one of them. It is no different than today.

    you have to go back to the early 1980s to find any sort of parity.
     
  7. JCW Driver

    JCW Driver Formula Junior

    Oct 24, 2006
    393
    Portland, Oregon
    Full Name:
    Bronson G.
    I've watched Sebastien race for Newman Haas in person, and he's very, very fast. Newman/ Haas have had some exceptional drivers in their stable (Mario Andretti, Nigel Mansell et al) and all team managers/ strategists that have been asked have glowed in thier praise of his skills. Car control is excellent (by comparison to others in champ Car) and he's got the fear "thing" tucked deeply away.

    He knew he'd be at the back when he left for F1, and he knew the adjustment to the car's braking distance capability would be a huge change. But the reality is that the best drivers will never be competetive in second and third tier teams, save for a random weekend here or there.

    Bourdais is in an uncompetetive car, for his first stint as a regular driver (tested for Benneton/ Renault before). His 4th place run (until the car pooped out at the end, and he finished 7th) and his offs in other races show that he can be fast, but the car is difficult to drive, and great finishes will be anomalies.

    Vettel is in the same boat. Fantastic talent as a driver, but in a car that is no match for the best.

    If he pulls off a great finish in a race or two, the way Webber did (Minardi), or Alonso did (Minardi) he'll get almost the look he's hoping for. Even then, he'll not be headed to a top team.

    (Of note: That little hand wave in the Canada GP pits was pretty unbecoming. He's also a little too quick to whine about other drivers. Doornbos mocking him on the podium was well earned.)
     

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