4 qts gone in 1,000 miles???

My '83 308 QV runs great, does not smoke (ever) and drips some oil (or trans fluid, I'm not sure) when parked. I recently checked my engine oil level again after about 1,000 miles of weekend driving this past year and was horrified to discover it needed over 4 qts to bring in into view on the dip stick.
A mechanic friend told me it's possible the engine oil may be seeping into the trans section (i.e. not burning it or leaking on the ground) and to check the level there. I will do this ASAP to check on it anyway. However, is this a possible cause of loosing oil for this model car?

Are there any other possible causes of loosing this much or is this "normal" for a 25 yr old engine with 24,300 miles on it.

Thanks.

Bob R.

 

4 qts in 1000 miles doesn't sound normal. My 328 has similar mileage and goes through less than 1 quart every 1000 miles.

I doubt that you could lose 4 quarts past the shift shaft seal, but I haven't had experience with this...

Are you certain it was properly filled at the last oil change/service?

 

It can seep past, but doubtful in that quantity.
How consistant are you in your oil checking technique. Can you please describe it, and how this compares with what is written in the owner's manual? Were you the one who checked it 1,000 miles ago?

 

Got a hoist you can get it onto?
With that pressure loss and volume consumption, in lesser cars, I'd be looking for a cracked or leaking oil line.

 

waaayy not normal

do a leak down (because you're probably consuming the oil....no way leaking that much and the seals don't leak THAT bad between the engine and trans)......do a leak down.......you'll find it

 

On an 83 you need to let the car warm up to operating temperature, shut it off, then let it sit for 15 minutes before checking, or you will not get an accurate reading.

 

Hypothetical question:

Whats the LEAST oil you can have in a 308 and still maintain oil pressure/ not damage the motor? I have also wondered this with the testarossa. The former takes what 5-6 quarts (guess, I don't own one), the latter 16 quarts....

On some domestic cars you can probably run on 1.5-2 quarts, as long as you don't do a lot of high-g maneuvers. Can dry-sump cars run with less oils???

 

I checked and my OM says exactly asyou say. I have to admit I did not check the oil this way. It was way after it cooled down (next morning). However, the oil pressure has been acting "normal" since I added the 4 quarts. I'll now proceed with checking it correctly and see what the level reads that way.

Thanks.

 

Reading the owner's manual is highly recommended.

 

I wouldn't be comfortable with a possible 3-4 quarts over. You really do need to figure out what is in there and not be guessing. Check it cold like you did the first time then you will know if it's overfilled. I have two marks on my stick. One I made when I changed the oil and had an even 9 quarts in the motor. This way I can check it cold and be certain. When warm I use the 15 minute rule per the manual.

 

I don't know what a minimum would be...just not below the fill mark...that's why it's there. The capacity on the 308 is about 9 quarts. I would not let it go lower than 8 considering [unlike a typical american car] it has an oil cooler, etc and should be kept at the correct level to keep bearings and such from potential damage. Why risk it?

 

Drain it and start over, IMO. And Glassman's note about waiting 15 minutes is crucial.

You might do real damage running it overfilled.

 

I once had a customer with a 512 Boxer (dry sump). He was new to the game and would check the oil before starting the engine and taking the car out. Each time it seemed to be 2 quarts low and he would top it up. After a few weeks it quit running and he called the shop and had it towed in. Oil was pouring out of everywhere, the air filters were soaked (probably why it quit running). We drained it and started filling 5-gallon pails. The best estimate was 42 quarts of oil plus what blew or leaked out. After a thorough cleaning, new air filters and spark plugs and a refill with the proper amount of Castrol 20w50 it started right up (and smoked like hell until the muffler cleared out) and was fine. Really embarrassing for the customer (he sold the car) but he definitely dodged a bullet.

A couple of extra quarts isn't likely to be a crisis but it is a good idea to verify the true level that you have and drain and refill if necessary.

 

My old 308 motor used 1 qt every tank of gas and didn't smoke either . . . spirited driving though . .. if you're using that much just putt putting around I'd be a bit concerned.


When I pulled her apart I was expecting to see valve guide wear but that was pretty minimal as was the bore wear . .. rings were pretty worn but the main reason for the oil consumption was carbon stuck all around the oil ring . . someone has commented that constant driving and oil changes would clean this out eventually.


I know I'm the minority on this one, but I check my oil right when I shut my motor down and keep it over full even with the upgraded baffle so I don't blow the engine up under hard cornering . .. after some more suspension refinements I'm finding it relatively easy again to get the oil pressure to dip during hard rights.

Isn't oil frothing the reason you shouldn't overfill? . .. not to mention the crank rotating in a "bath of oil" but I'm not that overfull . .. and besides . . isn't this what causes frothing/air anyway?

I'd like to hear the science behind the damage caused by overfilling . . . can't be worse than putting a rod thru the side of the block when she starves .
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Overfilling damage usually manifests itself in blown crank or cam seals (which are generally rubber with a metal grommet inside). This occurs because of the excess pressure from the extra oil. When the seal blows, lots of oil evacuates the engine quickly, which causes the engine failure. I would have to say the majority of engine failures I have seen are related to under filled or empty cars, rather than overfilling.

For what it is worth, a friend of mine called me saying his *ahem*Honda was running low on oil frequently all of a sudden. No smoke or anything though. He brought it to me to investigate, and I discovered a majority of his oil pan bolts were loose, and 2 were missing. I don't know how that happened, but it was clear oil was leaking from the area with the missing and loose bolts. I torqued all the bolts to the proper spec and replaced the 2 missing bolts, and the oiling issue has been solved.

 

Common "new owner" mistake. How long have you had the car? Bottom line, you will need to drain out at least two or three quarts. It is common for 308 owners to overfill (intentionally) by one quart to prevent oil starvation in right hand turns, but more than that could cause problems as previously discussed.

 

I've had the car 1 year now and have put on 1,000 during that time. This will be my first oil change since the last one during the PPI.

What should the stick's level show when checking it cold?

 

Not sure, but there are thread discussions on the subject of where it is when cold. There is some variation amongst the 308 versions, so best to check yours after you get the level correct when hot.