End of Ferrari manual transmissions?

unquestionably.

 

Ferrari decides how many manuals they want to make available. Strange, actually.

 

novice being the key word. (no offense ... we were all novices at one point.)

the speed of a downshift is irrelevant. you are on the brakes when downshifting. my own take is that there is nothing like a manual downshift and getting the heel-toe just right. the f1 is fun, for sure, but doesn't compare. with the clutch, you get the great feeling of having accomplished something very skillful.

as for upshifts, i personally don't care about being as fast as the f1. on a road course, unless you're schumacher reincarnate, the shifting isn't what's hurting your lap times.

both on-track and off, i greatly prefer the involvement of the manual. i can understand the f1 appeal though. driving a stick is becoming a lost art in general. (in the US, anyway)

 

All of above.....tick
I love my clutch pedal too!!

 

Surely you don't use the clutch when you downshift the FE?

Since you have an FE, you've probably looked at enough data to know that slow shifting can and sometimes does hurt lap times of new guys.

I guess I like the idea of no overrevs!

For the uninitiated, a photo of an "FE:"
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F1 tranmissions are no more or less engaging when to comes to shifting. You still use your hands to select the gear you want. The real difference is in the computer controlled clutch.

IMHO, the biggest advantage to F1 transmissions in being able to do everything with both hands on the wheel!

 

Ralph, I agree with you on this 100%: HOW ABOUT THAT !?

 

Dear Ferraristi,

You worry too much. Remember when Freon changed from R 12 to R134A? Everyone said you couldn't upgrade the system and everyone started hoarding R12. Well, how about now? The changeover is such a non issue.

The only sucessfull substitiute to " gasoline " will be "something" that is backwards compatible. Some of us with our classic Ferraris and Lamborghinis will probably have to buy "something" in a can from Advance autoparts because the "computer (if you have one) " can't compensate.

On topic,

A Ferrari without that beautiful gated shift and that shiny slick shifter?

Can you say Castrated!

Sorry, F1 is for oldies. Sure it's faster...on the track. How many F cars are really driven on the track? There is so much fun shifting gears and reving the engine till it screams! There is also some satisfaction is getting the clutch to match the revs on the shift.

I really enjoy my gated shift. F1 is really an.....AUTOMATIC !!!....you know, like a minivan.

How can you blip the throttle while passing a pretty girl in a short skirt in a F 1?


Shamile

Freeze...Miami Vice !

 

Can't agree with you guys more on the 6 speed. 430 3pedal spider to be finished at factory July 10th. Would sorely miss the "click-clack" with F1, even if I got around a track faster. When toured the factory couple months back, was told only 3% of 430's are 3pedals. What a shame.

 

Excellent !

...a gated shifter or walk.

 

Agree: there is nothing like the control a real clutch and a manual shifter can give you.
I took my car on a track only once and it was just for fun, not to beat any other one, so how fast I could shift meant nothing at the end of the day.
However, in everyday driving I upshift a couple of gears at the time occasionally, and more often than not I down shift a couple or even 3 gears at the time.
Try that with a F1 gizmo.
Also my friend with a F1 Gallardo pays visits to the shop every 15,000 miles to replace his clutch and I really do not miss that part.

 

This has been my impression. I drove the 360 with a 6-speed and was not impressed. The F1 in the 360 really brings the car alive. I just got back from a nice long drive in my new-to-me 355F1. I still have to throttle blip, so I get a little more interaction than the newer units. But the experience is no less than my old 6-speed 355.

Of course, I have a 6-speed daily and 6-speed track car in the works, so for me the F1 just adds to the experience.

 

Ferraris; yes
Chevys; no

 

well i upshift without the clutch. the shift actuator on the FE isn't so great, i've found downshifts works better if you stab the clutch. no blip needed though. i do clutch&blip on the high speed to low speed transitions though (eg 5->2 downshift). 5->4 and 4->3 is clutchless, but at slower speeds i stab the clutch. but i haven't mastered shifting that car yet so we'll see how my technique evolves.

actually i was just guessing, in other words speaking out of my arse. seriously though, sure slow shifting does hurt lap times, but i very strongly suspect that the major major culprit is 1) late braking / poor braking finesse and 2) poor corner entry speed.

i will say that the F1 helps get times up quickly just because it does take quite a bit of practice to really master heel-toe. the F1 really helps to inspire confidence. in part, maybe in large part, the above problems are so hard to overcome because to fix them you have to master heel-toe!

 

I agree. If there was huge demand for manuals, Ferrari would make more. I think it's a combination of older buyers, admiration of F1 racing technology (i.e., want to be like Mike or Kimi), and convenience.

How can any company justify building (and supplying parts for) a manual gearbox that's only going in a few hundred cars a year?

+1. Vintage cars aren't pushing the performance envelope to the same degree.

On the plus side, we'll always have older Ferraris around for those days when a stick shift is the called for.

 

It's ferrari. they can charge whatever they want. they could make the f1 standard and the manual a no-charge option. thus you've already paid for the f1. the savings to ferrari should be enough to justify the low volume.

 

i will say that the F1 helps get times up quickly just because it does take quite a bit of practice to really master heel-toe. the F1 really helps to inspire confidence. in part, maybe in large part, the above problems are so hard to overcome because to fix them you have to master heel-toe![/QUOTE]

I think that is my biggest problem with F1, although I do see the appeal, I feel like driving a sports car should be something of an art rather than get in and push drive. The thrill of a manual transmission is in the interaction that it gives with the car for me. F1 certainly makes cornering, braking, driving in traffic, and all the other things mentioned easier, but for me anyway it makes an F-Car like a VW with a really big price tag, awsome acceleration and handling. (Flame suit on for that comment ) Just my .02 but I hope manual is an available option for a long time to come.

Craig

 

I would hate for both of my hands to be tied to the wheel with F1. I always drive with one hand on the wheel and the other resting on the shifter. Driving on the street with both hands on the wheel makes you look like grandma.

 

There is usually no one around when I am driving mine, so I really do not care what I look like. I guess everyone on track looks like grandma?

 

No. The track is different. This is why I said "on the street."

 

I'm guessing you have never driven a car with an F1 transmission. F1 doesn't help in cornering, braking, and makes driving in traffic a little more painful. The trouble with traffic issue is because of the computer controlled clutch.

I drive with one hand on the wheel all the time if I'm just cruising around town. With F1, your hands are never "tied to the wheel" and you don't have any more or less shifting to do. The only real difference is with the clutch. You still pick your shift points and gear.

 

Interesting thread but I am surprised that noone has brought up what I consider to be the most likely reason for Ferrari to not support manual transmissions: having a real driver controlling shifts messes up the programming. That is also what I have repeatedly heard from other vendors like MB when explaining why they don't offer manuals. The hardest thing to program smog, economy, and even performance around is some guy actually shifting the tranny whenever they want. With F1 and/or automatics, the software can synchronize throttle opening and shift speed and revs etc. So much easier to meet market/regulatory requirements.

Actually initiating shifts via paddles is a mere nod to marketing based on current F1 rules, and will soon be obsolete as dual-clutch continuous shift and gearing transmissions become more common on the street. Do you really think it is optimum for even an F1 driver to be hitting the paddles? Clearly the software is "better" and can be more optimized to the rest of the drivetrain and sensor arrays. Only the rules keep out full-automatic.

Oh, and even more average cars are starting to have distance-control/lane-control/parking assist - all driver inputs are on the way out.

 

True, emissions compliance is a big issue. In my Audi with DSG, if you leave it in 'D' mode it upshifts quickly, conserves fuel and presumably produces fewer tailpipe emissions.