Unprecedented Ferrari bargains on the way...

I'm not saying that all F-cars are investment grade. 355/360 and maybe some of the older cars (cars which retail between 45K to $130K) could possibly take a digger. Doubtful though, I just don't think there's enough of them produced to be considered a wholesale token.

If you think that the supercars are going to auger in the ground, just hold your breath. The owners will be calling you soon enough, they'll ask for Mr. Blue.

The main reason- and this is the giant joker in the room- exports of premium cars to Dubai, Japan, Australia and to a lesser extent S. Africa and some of the developing areas of the world have skyrocketed as of late. With little barrier to entry, I can assure you that if the middle priced F-cars drop the wholesalers in Dubai will be scooping them up like Oreos - and accordingly will raise the wholesale on them. Shipping a car to the middle east is only about $1500. When you are talking about an $90,000 car which will sell for 500,000 dirham (?spelling?) - $1,500 is completely irrelevant.

We live in a global economy, and "unprecedented bargains" are a misconception. The dollar is a concern, but the reality is something quite different.

 

Put it to you like this...there are now more than twice as many Ferrari's available on Hemmings right now than there are BMW's.
And that....is never good.

 

Supercars? Why aren't they scooping up the multiple F40s and Enzos that have been sitting on the market all over the world for months? Why did so many cars not sell at the May RM auction? You guys are fooling yourselves.

 

Hemmings caters to collectible cars. And Ferrari people know to check Hemmings. BMW guys watch roundel for the collectible cars.

The auctions I'VE been to haven't seen any kind of significant difference on Ferraris. That's not to say it won't happen, it just hasn't yet.

 

THEY ARE! Some countries have some pretty steep import/export taxes and some are still under embargo. Someone -quick-put your F50 up on ebay with "export ready" in the title and you'll get multiple offers. RM Auction had "so many cars not sell?" Are you being serious? Go to any domestic car auction and you'll have 40% no-sale rates.

http://www.rmauctions.com/AuctionResults.cfm?SaleCode=FF08

Nobody is fooling themselves - the economy sucks right now. I'm just saying that because high world demand and meager supply from italy, to a very large degree- these cars aren't going to auger. I wouldn't be surprised to see a small spike in prices with a correction in a few years. Though, probably not on the "common" Ferraris like the 355 and 360 and 550.

 

I agree with many of you and do not consider cars investments. However, with the runup of certain cars like the Boxer, F40, F50, Enzo, Lusso, Dino, 275GTB as well as many others in recent years, and if there is a correction, it might be a good buying opportunity. I do remember F40s trading in the $200K range and the Dinos in the $60K range, and the Lussos in the $150K range. Some of these cars are trading double, triple or more. If the market of these high priced cars tank it would be a great way of justifying it as an investment by telling the wife that I am buying these cars for investment purposes.

 

You can not drive a muni bond, a stock, a currency or even a whole passel of oil futures contracts.

An investment that blows your pants off every time you sit in it! Come on!!

Ferraris will go up like balloons and down like lead sinkers just like they always have. Meanwhile, I just had the Dino and the 355 waxed and detailed, and they thrill me right down to my socks. I also bought some pre-refunded New York Water bonds last week. One thing makes you happy, the other makes you money. Life is short.

And, is it just me, or do about 98% of BMW drivers not have any clue whatsoever what it means to drive a car?? I mean, I'm no Fangio, but I've had it with all the peabrains in their beeeemers slopping all over the road. They all look like Corollas anyway.

 

Didn't know they make new old Ferraris.
I'll have a 250TR please.

You miss my points.

Firstly, that an economic cycle is nothing new to those of truly independent means. Its only relevant to those that rose on the prior boom.

Secondly, the price of F-cars in the US will be supported by US $ falling. Theres enough left hand drive countries in the globe for the cars to flow to should prices of "used" US F-cars fall.

 

I had not thought about it until the above post. There are many F40s and Enzos sitting on the market but I'm not seeing F50s. What gives?

 

As a super-niche car, those that love/want them and have the cash to buy an F-40 OR an Enzo can also afford the F-50 and choose to keep them.

 

Every time someone starts a post like this I feel like I have something to add...that is until I scroll down a bit and read what everyone else has written. +1 to most of you but if I had to add one thing it would be that longs in the market don't usually talk down their positions. Meaning...it's hard to imagine that owners don't start these posts. Either way...it's all fun but I agree with one of the first page posts..if you want one go buy one!

 

Those of us not looking to flip need a place for an open conversation about the market. Lots of longs want to add to their collections.

 

Little touchy, now, aren't we?? Gettin' bent outa shape over my post ain't gonna make yours right,
any more than my post makes me wrong.

These are cars; no more, no less, in spite of the many fans(of whom I'm one) that post on this site.

As such, there are enough Fcar owners who'll dump 'em when times are tough to make the
'speculation' interesting.

Personally, the item that put me over the top on this was when the Ferrari Market Letter started
posting current manufacture car ads from dealers without pricing. The alleged FNA ban on posting
prices convinced me that -somebody- from Ferrari is pretty spooked about the economics in the U.S.
affecting new car sales.

 

I've noticed that BMWs are rarely advertised in Hemmings. Same thing for Audis, Volvos, and VWs IIRC. Plenty of Ferraris and Bentleys though.

There are probably more Bentleys than VWs.

 

Hemmings is a bad example, but just look at how many ferraris are available on ebay - almost 300. It was at 200 just a few months ago and the number of cars on the market is climbing quickly which is somewhat telling.

 

Nobody is bent out of shape. They are more than transportation, they are more than cars. Yes, they have a motor and 4 wheels. But they are immune to much of the dumping that effect the wholesale market. You are talking about fractions of fractions of fractions of the number of cars produced compared to the market.
You aren't going to see Ferraris at auction for high bid in any kind of substantial volume. If some of the supercars and collectible examples out there take a 20% hit over 2007, then they will be selling for 10% premium over MSRP new. That's not exactly like a buick and "unprecedented values" are a myth. Unmet demand or restricted supply, either way you slice it up you're dealing with a different breed of buyer. I've never met anyone who had to buy a Ferrari.

I, for one, would absolutely love to see that myth become a reality! I'm not gonna hold my breath though.

 

Where were you guys who believe Fcars are immune in the early 90s?

 

LOL! That was just a modest 75% "correction". Thankfully though, otherwise I never would have been able to afford mine in 1998.

 

I owned a 275GTB during the '78 to '92 timeframe when I sold it. Before the late 80's runnup, it was probably worth $40-50k. Peak ASKING prices for $275GTBs before crash were around $600k, while I think peak sale was over $400k..... about a 1000% run-up in prices. After the crash, I sold it for $200k.. still over 300% above what it was before the run-up. Not quite the same today since I believe most of these cars have run-up a total of 200-300% in recent years. I don't expect a crash back to 2000 price levels for any Ferraris up to Daytonas. JMHO based on memory, and having been through the last crash.

 

I remember well, when Ferrari prices were plummeting in the early ninetees, how i too got scared from buying them. I was offered a 275 GTB/4 and a daytona for 600K and I said no, because I thought they will go lower. The point is when they are going down, it is hard to know when to buy them again. After all, I didn't want to spend 600K and turn it into 400K in a few months. I suppose you live and learn. Hopefully, if history repeats itself, I will not make the same mistakes again. Maybe, there will be an Enzo, a 288 and an F50 for me somewhere along the line....but I will be looking at vintage cars as well....Knowing all that, I still won't sell my daytonas nor any other cars even for the top of the market. I just love them now as much as I loved them then.

 

Marshall Goldman has had a perfect F50 sitting on the floor for months. The asking price is $985K -- probably not market anymore. Maybe it's a consignment car and the owner can't afford the loss, who knows.

 

The irony is that the guys who over price because they can't afford the loss end up taking the biggest loss in the end or a garage full of cars they won't break even on for years.

For me I don't wait for the absolute bottom. Who ever knows? When the values seem good it's time to buy if you plan to hold you'll do well or your heirs will anyway!

 

Break even?
I've lost money on every car i have ever bought
Eric

 

I was just doing a search and came across Steve Harris Imports they have 3 new F cars and they have MSRP listed on the price section. I don't know if that is true or not, But thought someone her might be interested. Here is a link

http://www.ferrarisales.com/dispinv.phtml?offset=0&qty=6&category=New+Ferrari

 

This only pertains to cars that may become available.