SPOILER -- CAN'T DEFEND MASSA ANYMORE

I hope you can also defend Felipe for his last great perfromance bud!!! Let me remind you of Silverstone, if you already forgot about it.
Of course the team is not going to come out a critisize Felipe right after his miserable and embarassing performance. I don't know if you do any racing at all, but he just gave up the inside lane for Lewis to take, what a joke...God forbid if we had a few sprinkles, he would of been spinning like he was two weeks ago...Time to send him to STR Ferrari, they have a open seat for him now and bring on Alonso

 

Thank you, this is what I have been saying here!!!

 

good point, I was pissed at FA that day as well , but surprised he could keep MS behind for so long when MS had the faster car

Massa should have fought harder in retrospect as I think Hamster is vulnerable under pressure and he hasn't been under pressure for 2 races now

 

LOL you were a bad boy! I agree with you on the drag racing learning - only a fool would dismiss another form of motorsports as being useless and beneath them in terms of what can be learned. Actually, given the importance of starts in F1, I would think/hope that some of those guys have turned to drag racers to learn the way to optimum launches. To me, drag racing is about technical perfection. It's taking something that is generally considered simple and refining it to such a degree that you approach as close as possible to the limits of what the hardware can do. I laugh at the guys who say "gee big deal, you push the pedal to the floor - who can't do that?" then those guys get all pissed on a road course when you put a few lenghts on them at the start line and they can't get by you . I found tricks to cut the reaction times - like if you stage verrrry shallow you can leave as soon as you see the last light come on. Your natural reaction time plus the time it takes to roll out of the beam usually meant you would leave the beam very close to .500, but sometimes you'd redlight (no problem for test n' tune, bad on race day).

Do you know a guy in your neck of the woods called Rob Manning? He is into drag racing, and also did some road course racing on motorcycles. He has at least one or more classic American cars and I think he's quite into drag racing. Figured it's probably a small world for dragging American motors in Sydney. Rob is an old friend of mine but I haven't heard from him in ages.

Cheers

 

heard the name but don't know him personally, will keep an ear out for him at the drag meets and say hi for you

cheers

 

I love the way people don't buy "excuses" when a team does poorly.

Well, if everything worked, they wouldn't have done poorly, now would they?

Forget the Hami pass: It was clear Piquet was on a one-stop, and for 20 laps Phil was stuck behind a Renault. Just as Kimi was stuck behind a Toyota for 19 laps.

When a Ferrari can't blow past slower cars --- then they're not really "slower". The Ferraris were *ALSO* slower cars, this weekend.

Phil gets dumped on whatever he does. He overdrives the car at Silverstone, pushing it past its capabilities (when he didn't have much to lose), and gets slammed for spinning. Then he nurses it to the podium within its limits at Germany, and gets slammed for not trying harder. I can't wait to hear the theory on how Massa caused the Chicago Fire.

Good thing it was Kimi that lost his exhaust pipe and managed to hang onto second. If the same thing had happened to Phil, this crowd would be cussing Massa for breaking the car and for not holding first anyway.

 

Let's see, Massa is still in the chase for the WDC, he leads his WDC teammate, today he got a podium with a miserable chassis which his WDC teammate did not do, he has won more races this year than his teammate, second only to Hamilton, etc. Possibly you did not know all of this and that would explain your statements? How can you, or anyone criticize a driver that is actually doing quite well? I am truly curious. Have you considered that in a mediocre chassis, it is a bit hard to win races? I mean Michael Schumacher had one heck of a hard time in 2005 and 2006, and lost the WDC both years because of a mediocre chassis. And a competitior with a better car.

Considering all the facts, Massa did quite well today. Definetely not miserable, certainly not embarrassing. Your complaint makes no sense to me.

As for bad days, can you name any driver that has not had a bad day, "bud"? Including Schumacher, Senna, Villenueve, etc. And Alonso, the guy you want at Ferrari, like when he slammed the wall last year during a rain race. Or did you forget? Schumacher lost it and hit a wall and broke his leg, ankle, whatever. Villenueve killed a few spectators and then himself. Senna ran into the rear of his competitor at 150MPH. Massa hit nothing at Silverstone, he finished the race. Terrible performance yes, but compared to 75% of the drivers that day, maybe not so bad. Even Kubica and Webber did not finish. In fact in the rain, last year and this year, Massa did not hit the wall as has Alonso.

Today Alonso had a bad day, in a crap car, spun at least once. Based on your method of assessment, Alonso must be horrible?

Look, please don't call me "bud", bud. Apparently you have not been listening or reading about the facts of today's race. Massa, and Raikkonen, had no grip, Massa defective brakes. Massa did exactly the correct move with Hamilton, he tried to retake his position once after the first pass, but it was not possible with the crap car he was driving. He let Hamilton go by, and kept his points and his podium. When Massa did try to retake his position, Hamilton nearly drove him off the track, possibly you were not listening to the SpeedTV announcers mention this? Exactly how long do you think Massa could have held back a faster McLaren? Seems to me after being around the sport for 35 years, letting a faster car go by and not fighting with the potential of losing more positions or even wrecking is the smart move. Is that concept difficult to understand, I hope I explained it OK?

Possibly you were too busy with other activities today to stick around and get the facts? That's OK, we all had things to do on a Sunday. That would explain your comments. And "bud", from those comments, I have a feeling I have been around racing much longer than you have. And in a more intimate way.

Thank you.

 

I'm definitely not a Massa fan but I think he did the best job that could have been expected of him today in terms of "bringing the car home and scoring points." He could have pushed the issue with Hamilton and driven more defensively but doing so would have risked an accident and no points (which wouldn't have been all that bad since he would have taken Hamilton out at the same time).

You can't blame Massa for keeping the big picture in mind. Personally I would have loved to have seen him maintain his line and force the issue. Had he not given Hamilton room to pass the blame would have been on Hamilton for drifting into Massa. Undoubtedly drivers like Alonso, Schumi, Raikkonen, etc. would never have let Hamilton pass reagradless of the outcome.

 

How was that? Please explain, knowing all the facts now it appears he actually did quite well. Got a podium. How can you say differently, I am curious.

 

Thank you.

 

I fully understand what you are saying, no disrespect intended. But what I am mostly frustrated with Felipe is that he is in my opinion a "one dimentional driver". Like I said, if he is fast on a given weekend, he'll get pole and possibly win the race in a very boaring way. How many times have you seen him take it to the competition, sort of take the bull by the hornes, especially when fighting for the lead during a race? I think NONE
Your points are all well taken, but my feelings for him do not change. And as far as Ferrari coming out and giving reasons to why they did...let me rephrase it...NOT SO WELL THIS WEEKEND...as apposed to poorly as some would say...I would not put too much weight into it. They rarely tell the whole story, not that they should, but only enough to satisfy. To me he is a second rate driver with delusions of grandeur. As once said, he is no Shumi, Alonso, Porst and definetly Senna. And I might add, it's because of drivers like him that the sport is becoming a little boaring, sorry...If you have not noticed, the races that he wins are as exciting as watching paint dry. Again no disrespect intended here. PEACE

 

Therein you have the issue: Phil is one of the best qualifiers in the field at the moment. Give him a good package, and he'll put it on pole.* And then win. No need to pass slower cars if you start ahead of them in the first place. Boring? Perhaps.

We *have* seen him "take it to the competition" at turn one upon occasion. But when he has a front runner, he runs up front. When the package can't compete for the lead, he doesn't pass leaders.

Okay, when his weekend has been tanked before the start, we haven't seen him do much crawling up through the field with an inferior car. He tends to over-drive it (when he has little to lose) and loses what few gains he has made when it gets loose.

But how much experience with losing cars does he have? He spent most of his F1 career with Ferrari, other than a couple of seasons with Saubers ... which he also over-drove.

In Germany, he took the podium spot he could get with that package without over-driving it. I'd say the kid is still learning.
If he could have gotten more, don't you think Shumi would have been on the radio to his protege, telling him to stand on it?

(I'm sure there were some interesting radio comms going on. But notice that the world feed doesn't get many of those radio moments from the Ferrari team.)

*Consider: Phil only just missed pole in Germany, in a car the McLarens were walking away from, when Kimi could do no better than third row.

 

Massa Is A Great Driver Except When He Has To Race
In that context, it is odd that Felipe Massa is considered to be the top-four driver most vulnerable to losing his seat for next season. The Brazilian's resilience is under-appreciated, for he has an unheralded habit of bouncing back from setbacks and his performance in Germany was another such example after his humiliation in Silverstone. Forget for a moment his amateurish attempt to block Hamilton and dwell on the fact that he comprehensively thrashed Raikkonen.

Massa's pace is also under-estimated and he is arguably the best frontrunner in F1 today (a product, perhaps, of the year he spent as a test driver for Ferrari, pounding out lonely lap after lonely lap). World Championships are not won on empty tracks, however, and it is a race driver that he falls short and the critics criticise. He is weak in the rain and his attempted block on Hamilton when the McLaren homed in on second place was feeble. Does he have the all-round package to win a World Championship? It's a question that Ferrari will be hugely tempted - and goaded into doing so by a fierce Italian press unaccustomed to defeat - to decisively answer in the negative if he fails to prevent Hamilton winning the championship this season.

The whole piece is at http://planet-f1.com/story/0,18954,3265_3845039,00.html

 

The armchair brigade speaks!

Very few posters on this forum let alone thread know ANYTHING about race car driving certainly not at a top level. This ain't NASCRAP people, top drivers drive to the edge of the cars ability 100% of the time, at some point discretion becomes the better part of valour and it is time to scrape together the best available finish. Remember those fuel saving years? That was sad racing, today we have a very interesting season going on and all you can do is talk crap about which you do not know. The race was made more interesting because of a once again McL cock up, be glad Brawn isn't masterminding things for LH, then it would be a NO CONTEST year for all.

 

Massa let Lewis pass him on the inside of the corner rather than make him go around the outside. If his brakes were that bad Phil should have let Lewis around on the straight where it is much safer.

I was very disappointed by this move by Phil and correctly anticipated that many Fchatters would rake him over the coals. Again.

It is clear to me that Phil is no Michael. Sorry for that too.

 

You might want to consider such an inflammatory statement given that many of the contributors here have extensive racing histories and more than a few have won championships.

 

Actually, he tried the "sucker" move, which would have allowed Lewis to start inside, but get pushed outside once past the apex of the hairpin. Problem is, Lewis didn't cooperate and blocked FM's inside move...you'd have to expect that would have happened, right? Maybe Massa underestimated his rival's strategy. The simplest thing would have been to protect the race line, as you suggest.

 

Really, single seater champions? Wow i did not know that mate. Who?

 

Alas...not me

I'll let folks chime in with their racing accomplishments if they want to.

 

I wouldnt say Massa. I'd say Ferrari.

 

Your wicked in a Porsche Ted, I have seen you flying in it ...

Alas not me either , give someone a good race in a Kart though..

 

yeah...on the roof

 

Yes. it was a sucker move...and Phil was the sucker. Poistered by his own petard.

Hope he learns before he is no longer in contention for the WDC.

 

I don't think it takes much to pull a "sleight of hand" on Massa. A brilliant driver will be able to get past him with a little head fake. Massa while quick just does not have the "sixth sense" it takes to be the world champion. This is something you really can't teach or learn no matter how hard you try.

 

Hamilton simply has Massa's number. Was it in Bahrain last year that Hamilton forced Massa into a self-induced error? Frankly I think Hamilton is not simply a better driver than Massa but a psychologically stronger one.

Kimi and Alonso would not have fallen for this.