SPOILER -- CAN'T DEFEND MASSA ANYMORE

This is the most ridiculous post you have started here. The team sucked this weekend as compared to Mac and even BMW (fastest race lap). They screwed up on the setup of the car and it is plain and simple. My hat is off to Felipe for driving an ill handling car so hard he lost the brakes. I imagine it had something to do with him left foot braking coming off the turn to try and help put the power down and control the torque band.

You probably would only be happy if Felipe had chop blocked Hamiliton in Coulthard fashion that would takend both of them out of the points....oh maybe thats what you wanted as it would have boosted your beloved Kimi's dismal finish and put him in the lead of the drivers championship.

Please

 

That remains to be seen as they were never in front of Lewis as Massa was.

 

Touche

 

That is how I felt, wile watching the race. However later on when all the facts were gathered I starting to look from the other side. Should you have risked taking both of yourselves out and maybe be penalized (remember Kubica last year), or just let him go and bag the maximum points you can.
Honestly I wish he blocked him off for as long as he could, just to give us a show, but realistically what he did was probably the smarter choice for the both championships.
I think the Massa bashing is especially uncalled for this season.
It is amazing how some people give all the credit for his wins to his car and in the same breath blame all the poor performances solely on Massa and call for his head. Let's not forget that if it wasn't for the quite numerous brainfarts that Ferrari had in the pits this year, Massa would've had quite comfortable lead in the championship and Kimi would have been right behind him.
Besides since when is a podium a career ending finish?

 

+1. LH is turning into one, slick, dude when it comes to racing against a racer. Seems in the three moves he pulled Sunday, he would push the obvious limit to the passed driver off the track....good, slick, and I hate him for doing it, because I root for Ferrari: but, good driving with guts...

Massa is a better Ruebens, but that's it. It's Kimi I'm having problems with....seems he raised to his level of failure and staying there.

now back to Massa

 

Good Honest post Rik, refreshing.

 

Unfortunately, I have to agree with original concept for this thread. I had been trying to give Massa some credit. This past race he finally convinced me that he is a very average F1 driver on a top team.

I just knew he would be overtaken by Hamilton and lose the position, but I was shocked at how quickly and completely he caved. He could have at least made it harder for Lewis than getting by Piquet.

Despite his points and his clear desire to try and keep his seat, it would be far better for Ferrari to replace him. There are plenty of guys in the field who drive inferior cars beyond expectations. I would like to see what others could do with a Ferrari with "overheating brakes".

 

Like Kubica.....

 

Massa isn't half the driver that Rubens is. Take a look at their records prior to joining Ferrari and tell me who is the better driver. Furthermore, Rubens' record at Ferrari was better.

Anyone who thinks Massa is anything more than an average driver with an excellent car needs to take a close, hard look at Rubens record before, during, and after his time at Ferrari.

 

Agree completely.

And, by the way . . . I never hear Kubica complaining--even when Ron Dennis made fun of his nose, he just laughed it off.

 

Hey give it a rest with Massa. His record at Ferrari IS better than Rubens' and you have been proven wrong about it before. I also never heard anything about the ten Gs. Did you pay?

 

Pregnant pause........

Not inflammatory, merely observation from reading so much repetitious bull crap about everybody except MS. I realise many would like to see drivers pushing each other off the track, that's why the IRL exists folks.

 

So having said this, do you think Rubens would beat Kimi? Look how close Massa is to him.

 

NONSENSE


Rubens at Ferrari:

Best Finish in WDC: 2nd (twice)
Wins: 9 (NOT including Austria 2002)
Poles: 11
Poles While teamed with Michael Schumacher: 11
Fastest Laps: 16
Podium Finishes: 55
Number of WCCs delivered on the track: 5


Massa at Ferrari:

Best Finish in WDC: 3rd
Wins: 8
Poles: 12
Poles While teamed with Michael Schumacher: 3
Fastest Laps: 8
Podium Finishes: 23
Number of WCCs delivered on the track: 0

So, given the above information, how on Earth is Massa's record at Ferrari better than Rubens? This defies even the most sycophantic of logic.

Oh, by the way, the bet isn't settled yet.

 

No. I don't think Rubens could beat Kimi. But I think that had Rubens been in the Ferrari in 2006 and 2007, Ferrari would have won both WCCs on merit.

We could also look at Massa and Rubens compared to Schumacher. Rubens lap times were the closest to Schumacher's of any of his teammates, Massa included. I think the next fastest teammate was over 2/10s slower than was Rubens.

I think the performance differential with Massa and Kimi this season is due more to Kimi's apparent lack of motivation than it does to Massa.

 

I am a big Kimi fan, and I honestly don't know what's up with him lately.

He just seems to have lost it. I saw flashes of brilliance when he was at McLaren, but lately he just seems to be there for the paycheck. I do not know how to explain it other than he's just lost his desire to win, despite all his claims in the press that "the fire is back" (which then means, Kimi, that the fire had been gone, right?).

 

there should be a thread about Kimi, not Massa.

I believe like most that Kimi is ultimately the better racer but he is a terrible qualifier and in the last couple of races seems to have put the car in cruise control and wakes up every now and then during the race and pushes like crazy and is the Kimi we all want to see but the flashes are few and far between.


Forget about Massa , he's doing ok but Kimi believes because he's not as far behind this year that he will still get there .... I hope so too but I'm believing it less and less

 

Thing about Kimi is that he's not a guy who's prone to stupid mistakes that will cost him valuable points. He's been disappointing for some reason, but he's generally very reliable. Massa seems to be either hot or cold, never in-between. Kimi seems to either be lukewarm or pretty hot. In the end, a bunch of P2's, P3's and P4's with a win here and there, is better than a few P1's and a bunch of DNF's.

 

good point on much, except I always thought Massa had a bit more....gusto, in some of his moves: RB was very good even though a two-footed driver, which is quite well done considering his competition. YET, RB is better at being a 2nd, not the 1st. He was good for Michael, as Massa 'might', but Massa seems to have a bit of desire to push his team-mate.

Perhaps that pushing came as a result of Kimi coming in late...and...Massa haveing the red camera top...Massa liked that... he's sort of tasted 'blood'...but, lacks something at the moment.

BTW: DIDN't like his interview where he said "....I am basically really good in the wet, I have always been good in the wet...."

actually, I never thought that. Guess he's the only one.

 

I agree. I think both Rubens and Massa are strictly #2 drivers, neither has the consistency to deliver a WDC.

Within that caveat, however, I think Rubens is a far better #2 than Massa. This is unquestionably borne out in the statistics.

 

Maybe someone should clue Coulthard in on this.

 

I am sorry, but I didn't see Hamilton pull any move. What I did see was Heikki, Felipe and Nelsinho moving over for Hamilton not putting up any fight whatsover and all of those instances it was for position.

Luckily I saw some epic racing between Rossi and Stoner a few hours later otherwise I would be disgusted even now.

 

I would have sacked Rubens on the spot after Austria 2002.

 

??

Why?

 

You never sease to amaze me. I forgot. Who won the WCC last year? And since you use MS for two things only-using him as an example for how bad Massa is and bashing him and Ferrari fans, I need a reminder. MS never,ever got beat by Massa?

and how is the bet not settled.