McLaren cheating again?????

I was merely responding to Fair-Weather Frank's provocations. I did not instigate the discussion, he did.

And I do appreciate (and welcome) your efforts at holding an informed debate with me.

For the record, I have never hid the fact that I am a Hamilton fan, I think he is the next great driver. That has nothing to do witht he team ghe drives for, nor did it when I was supprting Senna. I have my favorite drivers and my favorite teams. They don't necessarily have to be the same. I think this is true for most real F1 fans.

 

And don't tell me I'm the one who should take it easy. I am cool. It's your fellow Sennahaulic you should be worried about

 

Steve:

I'm cool with Lucky.

 

It is funny then how all your favorite drivers are never Ferrari drivers. I don't know who your favorite F1 team you pretend to be, but by most of your posts it looks like it is McLaren......since the 80s. I know you insist that it is Ferrari, but this is not the message your actions are sending

 

yeah, he gets abusive

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=158530&highlight=moron&page=23

I don't rate him as anything but abusive and negative

if you think swearing and abusive names is a high rating post then you may need to check you scales Steve

moderating should be where stupid threads were deleted, like all the Massa/Hamilton threads that lead nowhere except to raise the boiling point of some people's blood, and threads that drag up bad memories of past indiscretions (hence my recall of the arguments from last year and the bad blood that bought) like this one

 

He doesnt need me to stick up for him thats for certain!!, he can do that very well on his own, I just dont want to see it escalate unnecessarily but do what you like!!! it 's a free world.

 

AISI If it is as described in the original post the system its legal. If it is also enhanced by changes in the EU its illegal. Either way it will go the way of the flexi floor or Renault mass dampers. The FIA is devoted to reducing costs and fostering parity.

 

John, it's you doing the attacking at min, let it go we can have a laugh.., Ted gets banned if he upsets the mods and thats it !!

 

pointing out someone's deficiencies is hardly "attacking them"

 

The document that McLaren is STILL benefiting from and will be for the following years..

 

If by "reducing costs" you mean Mosley getting back at McLaren as much as possible, and if by "fostering parity" you mean kowtow'ing to Luca Di Mozzarella, then I totally agree!

 

Good to see that you've come around at last

 

Not true; they didn't have the documents until April; the first race was in March. Nigel Stepney called Mike Couglan during the Australian race weekend to inform him of the floor.
This was in the official FIA report....
Kevin S.

 

I watched the race yesterday and it was clear tha Hamilton didn't just have more punch off of the corners, he had more grip and more power on the straights. He was set up with more downforce and had an advantage EVERYWHERE on the track. Yea, I fully understand that more speed off of the corner gets carried all the way down the straights, but Hamiltion had more downforce as well as plenty of straightaway speed. You don't get that without more power.

I recall that at one Daytona 500 King Richard had a vinyl top put on his car and was telling everybody that would listen that it helped keep the air attached over the backlight and all of the competition was scratching their head as to why he was faster and figuring that they were going to have to put a vinyl top on their cars for the next superspeedway race. Turned out there were several illegal farings and vanes under the car that smoothed the flow under the car and that is what made him faster. The top of the car was something they could point to that made the car faster and it fooled the tech folks and the competiton for that one race.

McLaren has more power. They were set up for more downforce in the wet at Silverstone and that is why they dominated there. They can point to this "paddle thing" as being their "unfair advantage", but that isn't what it really is, it is simply the ability to carry more downforce and still pull the higher drag down the straights.

My bet is that if the took away this "torque control" or whatever you want to call it, they will still be fast. RD knows it too and that is why he is saying they will dominate in the near future.

He is smart in that if he can keep folks talking about his "traction control" thing they won't notice the real reason he is faster...

I also bet that with a good simulation any of the other teams will know the where and why LH was faster and we will learn more in the near future.....

 

Here's the original article from the Telegraph: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formulaone/2436986/German-Grand-Prix-Steering-clear-of-trouble.html

I think it is over the top to call this cheating. I am sure the other teams will 'seek clarification' whilst also getting their tech boys working on a similar system. If the FIA rule that it is legal then expect to see it on the other cars pretty soon. McLaren are now the quickest cars. This may be why. I think it's great that even with the tight rules in modern F1 the teams can still come up with new ideas.

 

It would appear that McLaren's quad thingies are perfectly legal. As was the flexible floor.

Inasmuch as Ron Dennis used the Ferrari dossier information to learn about the flexible floors, and then call for them to be banned, I would suggest that it would only be fair to have McLaren's thingies also banned as they apparently act like a manual traction control.

If they aren't banned, possibly the flex floor should be brought back?

You are interested in fair play aren't you Ted??

 

Not true, I was among the very few on here last season supporting Kimi when most of you were calling for him to be fired. For that I was labelled a turncoat on these boards, as was Andreas and the few others who supported Kimi right from the start. A lot fo the folks calling for Kimi to be fired are also the same folks qho know qquestion my commitment to the team and also are the same folks who claim they will no longer support Ferrari if the team hires a driver they disapprove of. Funny how fickle some folks idea of what it means to be a Ferrari supporter can be, no?

Among my favorite drivers are GV, Mario Andretti, Michele Alboreto, Rene Arnoux, Jean Alesi, Gerhard Berger, Alain Prost, Rubens Barrichello and Eddie Irvine, to name just a few of the Ferrari drivers I have followed. My racing hero before Senna appeared on the scene was Jackie Ickx.

 

Two different issues. The flex-floor was deemed to be a moving aero device by the FIA, follwing their new tests. it was legal before but later deemed illegal. Same as the Renault mass damper issue the year before.

In this case, the McLaren system has thus far been ruled legal. If the FIA changes its mind, then so be it. If they do not, I fail to see how that has anything to do with the flex-floor. Two differnet regulations, two different conclusions as to the legality. One ahs nothing to do with the other, so far as I can see.

 

The throttle pedal is a manual traction control. Should we ban that?

 

Well that would depend on whether, a digruntled/pissed off , Mclaren staff member decided to give away the info.

 

How do you come up with these statements? Two different issues, not even close to comparison. The four paddles at the steering wheel are totally different than the throttle pedal.

One is a loose interpretation of the rules, the other is a standard fixture.

 

I was trying to be humorous

I don't know if the 4 paddle system will be ruled illegal but I suspect it won't be. If anything, I think half the grid will have the system on their cars by the next GP.

 

Its the concept of rules interpretation that is the same. The McLaren system has not really had a ruling as of yet, I would think soon it will.

No matter how you look at it, it appears to be a method of traction control above and beyond the driver's judicious application of power through the floor pedal. It remains to be seen how that can be legal.

 

Possibly, but I'm definitely not sure there is even any *reason* for it to be investigated, let alone banned.

Because, as SRT-Mike noted "torque control" is absolutely legal as long as its controlled by the jockey - Same as brake balance, diff setting and so on. It can't be done electronically, but my understanding is that it is *explicitly* allowed manually, as long as it's not done automagically when changing gears.... It must require a "separate movement", which is obviously the case with a separate "thingie"..... Now, if Mcl "got smart" and put the 2nd thingie within reach of the first thingie thereby allowing a single movement to gets the desired result we're possibly getting into a grey area.

Incidentally, what are the other two paddles for on all the other cars? (I'm pretty sure they all have 4 thingies already.)

cheers,
Ian

 

+1

That's it.