Seems to me that pretty much everybody who is defending McLaren's actions is also defending Ferrari's...
What's good for the goose should be good for the gander right? Banning team order's, as such, is BS imho let the driver's/team's race and may the better strategy win or place higher right?
I think the whole rule about team orders should be dumped. It is just part of the sport and it will always be, unless they make it one car per team series. However if the rule is in there and teams are trying to go around it, I fine with it, but they should at least pretend they are trying. The Massa-gift-to-Raikonen move last year was a finely orchestrated maneuver executed faultlessly. Everyone knew it was coming even before the race started but it was done "smooth" The way McLaren handled it on Sunday was pretty blatant and like a smack in the face to everyone, pretty much sending the message "we know what the rules are and we don't give a damn" There is a big difference between the two and unfortunately some people here are not getting it. I still say toss that stupid rule out the window.
+1 If SRT Mike really thinks his arguements are facts then there's no point discussing. And for the record: no, I don't know the facts either but there's also something called reading between the lines. Not scientific fact I'll admit but discussion in this section have been so much hung up on so called facts there seems no room anymore for some commen sense. And again: I'm not against team orders at all, in fact I support them.
If Ron told one driver to let the other driver pass, that would be a team order no matter how fast one of the drivers was. The race chances constantly, cars get fast and slow, strategy changes etc. If one driver was held up for 5 laps it could have made a difference or if the second driver was forced to PASS the first driver they could have collided, one driver could have nipped a turn or kicked up dust, gone out on the marbles etc. To say "oh he was going to get by anyway" is something a PR person would say after they were caught. It's not up to the teams to interpret or decide the rules.
To anyone who believes the no team orders rule to be a good one BOTH cases are a smack in the face - nothing could be more blatant than a breaking of the rules that "everyone knew was coming even before the race started", irrespective of how smoothly it was done at the time. I don't think there any significant difference between the two cases.
One way to settle it once and for all would be to have only one car and driver per team. That way, the only team orders would be "go faster".
+1 thats the only way. Also how well did Heikki defend against LH. I noticed LH said nothing about that. If he wants to dis Massa he should start with his own team mate defending. Also I wonder what LH would have done had he been in HK's position. Does he yield to RD on the radio as HK did? That would have been interesting.
It seems like Mclaren made a very smart team move by having Hamilton not pit under yellow. Had he pitted under yellow then Kovalainen would have had to wait and he would have come out around where Kimi was (12th). He would not have recovered from this situation and probably score no points, maybe 1. Instead, he gets 5th place and 4 points for the team. It only makes sense that he should allow Hamilton past, (especially if he was unable to advance). This is where working as a team benefits both drivers and the team. Should it be illegal for Mclaren to not have Hamilton pit when the yellow came out? I think not but that was as much a team order which also affected the final result.
Make sense on pit strategy for the team. The pass was a forgone conclusion as it seems to be LH's team. He is the #1. The execution looked suspect to some so we have our debate.
What seems to be forgotten, leaving him out on track and not refueling Hamilton could and maybe would have cost another driver the win. At the time it looked like a mistake IMO, and we then wouldn't be debating it, but the rest is now history as he proved yet again he is a great talent, and this now sounds like sour grapes to me. IMO
Heike is a better driver than Hamilton IMO, but Lewis is Dennis' baby and so he gets to suck the tit first and Heike gets the leftovers.
This post makes no sense. Why would Lewis pass judgement on Heikis defense of the position when Heiki let Lewis take it? Also, as for what Lewis would do, he would probably do the same thing that Heiki did. You say "yield to RD on the radio" - do you have a secret line into McLarens radios that none of us have? And before you say "oh come on we all know RD told Heiki to move over", no, we don't know that. 1) Ron said he didn't order Heiki over 2) We know from last year that McLaren does not have team orders - if they did, Lewis or Alonso would be WDC and McLaren would be WCC in 2007. Ron was willing to let his drivers fight for the title independently last year when it cost him the WDC, and you honestly think he's going to suddenly start implementing team orders this year when Lewis is already tied for the lead? Of course not. McLaren has a long history that proves they do not have team orders. Unfounded assertions to the contrary based on what happened this past race are nothing but disenchanted whining. Face it, Lewis and McLaren won fair and square, no matter how in denial people may be about it.
Aren't team orders technically someone coming over the radio and saying "let him pass", etc? I assume Heikki just knew Lewis had the pace and let him by. I highly doubt McLaren would have been stupid enough to tell either driver to do something like that over the radio. It was just common sense. Heikki has never really put up much of a fight with Hamilton, except for the beginning of the Silverstone GP. Why hold up your team mate just to make him suffer? It's not like Heikki and Lewis are fighting for a WDC position.
*cough* Australia - DC and MH swap places *cough* 97 where we have plenty of team radio from RD telling his team to let "the friendlies" by that's just off the top of my head Ferrari will come back, Stephano is no fool ...... yet
Let me know what your drinking it must be good, as Hekki is probably gone after this season, since he cannot come close to Lewis's pace. Get over the RD issue, the guy is the most naturally gifted driver in the field.
Based on what? He was horrible the first half of the season and has only recently resembled a driver deserving of the McLaren seat. Lewis is good, like it or not.
fully disagree. Mclaren having team orders at this stage of the season is not the right thing. pretty similiar to Austria 2002. don't forget the fact that Kova isn't really 100% out if the WDC contention. regarding Massa last year in Brazil, of cos it;s the right thing to do. Massa went into the race knowing the fact that he had no chance of getting the WDC.
Hmm. If the rule is literally against "team orders", I guess there's nothing in the rules about the engine client teams getting out of Ferrari's way. (Remember all those years when you knew Sauber/Ferrari wasn't going to hold up the red cars?) So, anyone want to blow a few megabits of bandwidth debating whether it was a potential move to Ferrari or the mill in the back of the STR that let Kimi get around Vettel? This is apparently the wrong thread for notions like the Ferrari being quicker (which is debatable last weekend) or Kimi being more experienced.
