Gotta Risk Bending or Breaking ......

I havent looked at your other thread since im on dial-up where I am at this moment so I have to ask. did you remove the dipstick extension that is threaded into the gearbox?

 

Not just the nut on the dip stick, but the tube that the nut holds in right?" It won't come off with that tube in there.

 

Don't know a thing about the Ferrari but have had several other cars where the engine mounts had to be unbolted and the engine lifted slightly for the pan to be able to clear for removal. Sounds like a pain but it was really only 5 minutes of work to unbolt the mounts, put a hyd jack under the eng and left. Is that workable? I'll be able to answer this question when I pick up my 328 (first Ferrari) in a few weeks!

 

This is not going to be good news for you.

When I did my engine, I had it out of the car, mounted on a stand, turned upside down. I had to remove everything that sticks inside the oil housing. Then, remove the nuts holding the oil pan in place, pry it out as far as possible, reach in to remove the 3 nuts holding the S shape oil pick up tube and let the tube drop, and then the oil pan came out tilting (forward or backward, can't remember).

Not good news, may not be official, but this is what I had to do (this is a Ferrari circa 1980, afterall). This was designed by the same people that could not figure out a way to design linkages around the engine, but instead drill holes right through the oil pan so the shift rod can get to the transmission, thereby giving all 3x8 the famous shift shaft seal oil leaks.

 

This will seem obvious, but before throwing a wrench at me I simply ask you to sit down and consider it a moment. A good aircraft mechanic mentor told it to me when I was frustrated working on a particular job on an airplane I knew nothing about. "If a man put it together, a man can take it apart". Or another way to look at it is that you have to be smarter than the machine.

Obviously it was put together and has covered some mileage, so therefore it MUST come apart the same way. PROVIDED something has not become damaged or entangled.

When you are sure of all things, yet something does not work as it should, something has "obviously" been overlooked.

Just to make sure everyone is on the same page as to the the dipstick and where it attaches at the top of the gearbox. The gland nut is loosned and backed off, the dip stick and dip stick tube come away from the gearbox, and then you use a fingernail, a pick, or a magnet to retrieve a short steel tube that drops DOWN inside the the gearbox dip stick hole. It just drops into the hole. I know we have gone over this ad nauseum, but we all need to be sure this is covered. We call this part the dip stick tube extension, because it extends down into the gearbox oil sump, about 5 inches below the dip stick gland nut that you undone to remove the dip stick tube.

Dip stick tube extension out? Check!


The oil temp sender needs to be completely removed from the sump. To make sure we are all on the same page, the oil temp sender sticks out the front of the gearbox, just to the drivers side of the shift shaft. It must be unthreaded and pulled completely out of the gearbox.

Oil sender out? Check!

Now the fun part. If you have gotten this far, and all the pan nuts are off, the pan WILL (MUST) come out. As it drops down (you may have to pry it loose to start it) you might have to tear the gasket. The pan needs to roll, or rotate (carefully) rearward. If it hangs up you need to back it up a bit and carefully wiggle it forward as you roll it rearward, never allowing it to jam up anywhere. It it jams, you need to back up. Once it jams, any further forcing will only jam it tighter, you have to push it back and work it down without any jamming. Done correctly it wiggles right down and away.

Remember, it MUST go back in the same way it comes out, and thats how it was put together. The ONLY possible hangup would be if somehow the oil pickup tube has come loose inside the engine and is somehow catching the baffles. But that should have caused the oil pump to suck air and most probably a total loss of oil pressure. If you had good oil pressure I doubt the pickup is loose. There is a hanger bolt on the pickup that is safety wired, if the engine was assembled correctly there is no way that bolt could come out. With the pan dropped a little bit you should be able to see the oil pickup screen, you should be able to push it with a screwdriver or wiggle the pan to see if it moves. It should be more or less rock solid. Regardless, just keep wiggling it.

Your not the first guy to struggle with one of these, there have been a few posts by others having the same difficulty. The first time I did it I got jammed up too. But as long as you continue to remind yourself that it went together the opposite way, and remind yourself that although there are a little over 100,000 Ferrari's that have been built in the all of history, probably far less than 5% that many people in all those many years have EVER actually wrenched on one, and even less were owners. Your in a pretty special club when you work on your own Ferrari, hang in there.

 

I can assure you with all confidence that the engine was NOT assembled that way. The pickup is fastened down, safety wired, the engine is then attached to the gearbox, and THEN the sump cover is installed. I have done this job myself several times on BOTH my 308's, and have never had to resort anything so crude as force and pry bars (well, maybe a little nudge to crack the heads loose), and have never read or heard of anyone else having to do so. You do not pry things apart on cars like these, they are not Chevy's. The oil pan will come out by carefully (and intelligently) wiggling it, everyone else who has worked on these cars the last 30 plus years has gotten thier's out without resorting to pry bars and force and mashing things.

As to the shift linkage, getting rid of linkage hinge points and keeping the motion in as linear (fore and aft) a direction as possible has ALWAYS been the goal. I feel that running it through the sump was absolutely ingenious. The fact that some of these cars that are 25 to 30 years old are only now needing the seal replaced between the two sumps, is testamony to its intelligent design. Even without a seal, it would probably take the time between oil changes to cross cantaminate the oils enough to be of any great issue.

Just wiggle the damn thing around every which way, it WILL come out.

 

The pan will come off. When I did mine many years ago, it took me numerous tries over a period of two days for the thing to come off. There was little force involved once I had it positioned correctly. Unfortunately, I did not photograph nor remember how I turned it and exactly what I said to it to get it to come off. It does not need prying.

About the only thing that's as tricky is getting the headers out of a 944turbo without removing the collector from the waste gate and turbocharger.

 

It is part 76 on tav 23 from the rear of the car looking forward it is located on the right (you don't have to remove the wheel well to see it from the bottom If it is there the parts book is right for your car as well as the word manuals I sent you. The wires should be RED-BLACK and Green.

Back on topic: Take a deep breath and relax. Try to visualize were it is hanging up and try to rotate parallel to the crankcase ( I know it is a small amount) b4 you rock and wiggle it free the direction off the hang up.

Misery loves company and you have it here in spades.

OFF topic When the brackets broke the studs on my instrument panel when I replacing the 85mph speedometer because the 180mph failed to do anything, I commented my wife and friends that were helping me that this is like a 4 hour erection after taking Viagra.
I love working on my Ferrari but sometimes it just does not seem to end.

Stephen

 

excellent post, you painted a perfect picture!

 

Well, there just is never any accounting for the hacks of the world who might have worked on our car last. That welded piston Dave Helms found in one blew me away, I still shake my head when I think about someone doing that. We expect that someone would take the time to put stuff together right, and if its together and not doing anything wierd thats what we assume. Sorry you had such a hassle with it, glad you got it apart without resorting to TNT. I think I would be very careful trying to bend that tube, its very hard metal and it could crack. Maybe you tweaked it enough getting it out that it will slip back in?