What I posted was written by a MD for the Journal of American Medical Association. I am not a chiropracter. I think your personality is the epitome of the personality type discussed. A wannabe? That is hilarious! You feel MDs are so important that the last thing you have to explain me is jealousy and stupidity? Sweet! I can't keep up with this intellect. It is waaay to complex for my reasoning. I must concede to medicine. Back to the original question, DOs must be inferior to other branches of health care, including a vet. Although, they are right above a dentist. Why? Because doctors of Medicine, who are the most politically strong and populated, say so. Everyone should do exactly what they, and Dr. Phil, say and do. According to what we are told on TV and by our doctors who specialize in medicine and everything not related to medicine, they have a better education. They go to school much longer. Their hours in school are more "intense". By the way, those hard earned hours are only EXACTLY what they needed to treat and diagnose every patient forever and ever, amen. Well, I need to go now. I was going to go to the Saab dealer so they can tell me why I should trade my lamborghini in for a Saab. Next time you take your cat in for an exam, remember to ask your vet about your vision problems, as they are more knowledgeable than your eye doctor, and your DO is flat out dangerous!
My education is the product of some of the most prestigious institutions in the country. I have first hand knowledge of the nepotism in these institutions. fully 40 to 50 % of the students were undergrads at its college. Most of the rest were undergrads at schools that were similarly ranked. The residency programs were heavily weighted in favor of students that graduated from the affiliated med school. Johns Hopkins surgical residency program used to have a pyramid. They would take 20 interns and slowly weed them out and only finish 4 chiefs. This practice has been abandoned. The best way to make the cut and get beyond the second year is by having graduated from Johns Hopkins Medical School. There were interns there from other med schools like Vaderbuilt, and Harvard. The guys that were asked to stay were overwhelmingly from Hopkins Med School. Same thing at MGH. They never had a pyramid but the vast majority of residents graduated from Harvard med.
Wow, This turned ugly in a hurry. Nothing more fun than watching a bunch of doctors argue about which one has the biggest, um.... metaphorical tongue depressor. Wow guys. No wonder I prefer my DO, he doesn't seem to pack the giant medical bag of emotions that some of you guys do, or the humongous ego either. Ivy league this, advanced degree that. Good Grief. Of course Uro, in as much as he spends one half of everyday poking around rear ends, and the other half scraping crud samples off a ... ok, I'll skip the details... seems to possess more down to earthiness than the whole lot of you. Some seem not to suffer from cranial-anal insertion, but some of you, sheesh. DM
I agree. UroTrash, you seem to be relaxed, down to earth, and very knowledgeable with health issues when posting here. I am sure patients see you because they appreciate you as an open person and doctor. I bet you have a great practice. It is nice to see someone who can laugh at things that others find offensive. I will be due for my DRE in about 20 years. I am afraid my wife won't want to do them on her husband. Actually, she may use way too many fingers if she does it on me. If I become a patient, will I be your first out of state patient you acquired through surfing the internet?
I was just thinking that too! I only asked because my Doc is a DO, and his father is an MD. I have nothing but positive things to say about him, no complaints whatsoever. I was just wondering what the differences were. Didn't mean to start all this.
I'm afraid not, I've had a long career of internet diagnosis: http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?p=134299385#post134299385 .
Here goes: This isn't about ego or attitude, it is about correcting misinformation, and misrepresentation of the medical field by a number of posts above. My personality unfortunately cannot let things go that I disagree with, perhaps one facet of my success, who knows. POINT: The major assertion put forth following the OP was that the DO degree is = the MD degree. This was followed by anumber of quotes, and I only paraphrase because I can't be bothered to go back and cut and paste them all in: 1. DO = MD because I know a good DO, and I know of bad MDs. 2. Medical School is all "hype" they basically spend a bunch of time walking around "watching" Doctors on rounds, and get paid for it. 3. American Medicine sucks, in fact it is one of the worst in the whole world, the care elsewhere in the world is superior. 4. We have more people die from cancer than places like Turkey. 5. I am brainwahsed by the mind control freaks at MGH to convince myself I am better than a DO, Vet, Dentist...this is to support my wildly out of control ego, one I was born with. 6. I went to great institutions because daddy had money, I knew someone, and I'm no different than anyone else who didn't go there. 7. Medical School is irrelevant, only training matters. 8. The degrees are absolutely equivalent and the doctors are equivalent, because we all have to take the same boards. COUNTERPOINT (which is unpopular becuase of th emyth that anyone that doesn't defend the "underdog" must be evil): 1. and 2. The DO degree does not equal the MD degree. Citing examples of good DOs and bad MDs is statistically immaterial and doesn't address the underlying issue. Medical School education does offer value above and beyond training as it gives a Doctor intellectual tools and an "intentional stance" that will shape how to approach different problems from a variety of arenas, not just withn the specialty of training. Professors and peers and top schools are more capable of expanding one's horizons than those at less well known schools. Why? Becuase those that are brilliant and want to spend their lives being the best tend, on average, to gravitate to the best schools. You want to increase your chance of finding the best engineer out there, try looking at MIT before spending your afternoons recruiting and interviewing candidates from the local community college. I would assume this to be so self evident it doesn't need defending. The people who require such statements (MIT has more top flight engineers than State University) to be defended are people with an agenda, because anyone with a decent education knows that MIT has more top flight engineers than School "unknown." I'll bet you Ferrari F1 team has more top flight engineers per "capita" than STR F1 team. Medical school is not hype, just as MIT engineering is not hype. If you are driven to be the best and have the best resord to support it you will chose to go a place that represents that "quality" more often than not. Of course nothing is absolute. You don't walk around on rounds "watching people" that is where the "vacuous" retort was generated. Residents are taking care of patients on those wards. And if you are sick on one of those wards, just pray you have a good team of residents! 3. We do not have the worst medical care system in the world. That claim is plain jibberish, and again was a source for the "vacuous" retort. We have the finest physicians, technology, and major hospitals in the world. That is why the rich and elite from around the world get on a plane to MD Anderson or Sloan Kettering for their cancer care if they can. Our healthcare system is the final common pathway for a host of societal ills from drugs, to inner city poverty, etc. The fact that Massachusetts has one of the highest infant mortality rates in the world has nothing to do with the quality of the hospitals in Massachusetts, it has to do with the social problems that state is facing. This is part of a larger social problem. The claim that our medicine is terrible clearly demonstrates the lack of understanding regarding all the complexities of healthcare within a broader social context. 4. We do not have more poeple die from cancer here in the US than elsewhere. We have the finest cancer care hospitals in the world. And the quality of care in the community taking care of cancer patients is extraordinary thanks in part to the NCCN guidelines and standardization of treatment paradigms. The poster makign this claim obviously is ignorant of all this in his lust to deride our healthcare system. The words of a bitter person. 5. I was not brainwashed to feel more important than a dentist or a Vet. The decisions I make all day long, which live me for years and years to come, carry the weight of people's lives. If I screw up someone can be seriously hurt or die needlessly. The same cannot be said of a Vet, period. It is unlikely a dentist stares at the ceiling fan at night wondering if every avenue was correctly and completely explored in trying to keep someone alive. This is reality, pure and simple, deal with it. A DO may have the same responsibility in a specialty, but refer back to points #1 and #2 above. The issue is not the individual but the degree and the likelihood of there be equivalency. 6. See my previous post about "daddy getting me in, " he didn't, he died long before I went to Medical School. Nepotism isn't always bad. The reason MGH likes Harvard students (which in fact are the minority of candidates accepted at MGH) is because they have a known quantity. They know the hurdles one had to jump, they know the education they recieved. There are of course exceptions, but Harvard is a darn good place filled with some incredibly bright people. If I own a company and need a top flight engineer to bring me to the next level I'm going to recruit on the MIT (or CalTech) campus before UMass. Could I occassionally be wrong doing that? Sure, but more often than not I will be right. With regards to post about Anesthesiology, it is one of those residencies begging for warm bodies, neurosurgery is not. You will find more DOs in anesthesiology than neurosurgery, especially neurosurgery department at MGH or Duke (where Kennedy went when the chips were down). In summary: DO can be a fine physician, an MD can be a total disater. But it does not follow logically from that the DO degree is equal to the MD degree. Medical School does make a difference in shaping a physician, and shapes career paths. Excellent mentors and peers do matter. It is precisely this cohort of people that have the biggest impact on our professional lives. Training is important, train at the best place you can, just as get educated at the best school you can. If you run a training program try to recruit the best and brightest all the time. American healthcare is the best in the world, social challenges notwithstanding. If you are deathly ill, the U.S. is th eplace to be to receive the best care available. If you haven't got 2 nickels to your name, stumble into the ER at MGH, you will be receive care. Bottom line: I hope no one here is ever battling cancer (to pick one emotionally charged and complicated specialty) and thus fighting for his or her life, or one of your loved ones, but if you are...seek the finest care you can receive...and a good place to go looking is MGH, Hopkins, MD Anderson, Sloan, etc...or try to find someone who was trained there. You are more likely to find state-of-the-art care, and chances are that person also has a very strong educational background. His or her philosophical breadth and depth may be just as important as knowing which chemotherapy drug to pick. I apologize for typos, not a term paper, and haven't the time to go back and proof.
That sounds good. I agree that MD does not = DO. They are not the same, they are different. I just hate to say that one is better than the other. I don't believe they are. By the way. I said I was not a chiropracter, because I am a chiropractor. lol. I am a extremely scientific and rehab based chiro, sort of like a PT. I do blood work, x-ray, and MRI. We have 12 clinics and try to be the best we can for patients with NMS conditions. I openly send people to MDs and DOs. I get frustrated when I refer out a patient for something and the doctor I sent them to says something like, don't go back because the DC could hurt/kill you. I know this sounds funny, but it happens quite often. It is more dangerous to drive to my clinic than for me to treat a patient. That is why malpractice is low here. Low back pain is a common reason to go to the doctor. It stinks that their has to be so much segregation in the system. I think we are all primary care doctors of different areas and we all work together great...as long as bias, money, and ego dont get in the way. Sorry if I made you mad....just trying to make a point.
Yes you have to. Some Caribbean MD program in the past didn't require an MCAT to get in. Those graduates would have an MD with the ability to practice medicine in the US. I believe all of the Caribbean schools that have MD programs require the MCAT now. And only recently. Some US-based MD programs don't require the MCAT, but those are the combined undergrad programs. I know the University of Florida has a 6 or 7 year program where you get a BS and MD at the same time. You need like a 1500+ SAT though to get in.
OK, doc, have your little laugh, all I was reporting is what I've heard. If you want to disagree with me, at least be courteous.
Fair enough, but what you "heard" is just plain silly. Might want to see a dermatologist about that thin skin.
If you know for sure, provide some facts and/or accounts of relevant experience. Did you apply to both and find med school admission more difficult? I imagine the other folks on this thread would find the answer to the question interesting and informative: Is it as hard to get into osteopathic school as it is to get into medical school?
my utsw class was approx 208 (numbers get srewy because of md-phd candidates). Only 5 even bothered to apply to TCOM. right or wrong, in general, DO schools are considered lesser programs by most applicants. keep in mind, hard to get into is a very vague term. Texas A&M only accepeted 48 students the year I applied, and as such was quite tough to get in to, even though it was not considered a top texas program at the time. seriously, as far as medical schools go, you are comparing IVY league to community college. all that said, at the end, all the students are doctors. good and bad from both...
US News ranks the osteopathic school in Lewisburg WV 43rd in the nation for primary care it ranks WVU med school 56th in primary care. There are lots of Med schools ranked lower than both. Again MD, DO no difference unless you're talking research it depends on the doc and the training.
Yes, it is a vague term. I guess applicant to acceptance ratios tell the real story, and that's what was referring to in comparing TCOM to SWMed...an article I read claimed that % ratio was about the same for both schools. The "quality" of applicants...that's pretty nebulous...don't think either school considers the dregs. If 21 again and wanting to become a doctor, the MD route would be my preference, for sure. There has to have been been a guy or two out there who figured DO was the best he could do, but said what the hey and went ahead and applied to an MD program along with the DO ones, and got accepted for the MD and rejected by the DO.
That's nothing! I've heard close to 70% of all doctors are in the bottom two-thirds of their class. Un-freakin-believable.
