Daily driver

exactly right, it is no substitute... How can it be when Ferrari expenses cost half what your pay for a brand new daily driver?

I never said Porsche are a substitute for Ferrari (Maserati or even Lamborghini aren't). Porsche are too good to just be a substitute - they have their own heritage and (imo) better engineering when compared to the "injury" prone Ferraris.. Porsche are the ones who infact have no substitute because no other sports car can be as versatile whilst being as affordable.

As for BMWs, the M3 will always be a sports car (not sure how much you know about BMWs.) Its v8 is derived from the 10 cylinder M5 motor which (as we all know) was/is developed by their F1 sector. Whats not to like? The 3 series is the 3 series, the M3 is clearly the M3... Two different trims of one very popular automobile. And for 50k, a Ferrari is just not feasible unless one can cover the ridiculous insurance expenses and maintenence . . . Had he been in the market for a newer Ferrari, he'd obviously have a bigger pot of money to spend wouldnt he. That would also mean maintenence issues would significantly differ, when compared to those of the older cars.

 

I beg to differ! I have been using my 1984 400i (#049773) as my four seasons daily driver here in NYC for the past 3 years and nearly 30,000 miles. It has been fast (well, kinda) comfortable and dead nuts reliable over all that time, including three winters of salt, snow and slush (on Bridgestone Blizzaks). I drove it into the City from my country house this morning, down the west side highway in traffic, no problem in comfort (get dual AC). When one factors in depreciation, a used but not collectible Ferrari is probably the cheapest available transportation - at least alot better than the A8L it replaced, which depreciated 30k in 18 months (ouch)! Plus, I get to enjoy a Ferrari every day (priceless) without destroying my "nice" Ferraris (Dino #10704, 365BB #18265, TR #65247).

I say that life is too short NOT to drive a Ferrari every day, and there is no reason one can not economically drive an older Ferrari for all purposes in all weather!


A
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Maintenance I can't say... but insurance? Hypothetical 328 - 5000 mile annual limit, agreed value of $50k, and allowed to drive it to work. I was just quoted $725/year.

I'll stop posting on this thread - don't own a 308/328 & don't particularly want one, but I do think they are great cars and would make a fun daily or almost daily driver.

 

Werd (Word)

 

Alexander,

You are a superstar. I have a few questions. How many miles are you putting on your car per week or month? Judging from your post you're doing about 10 000 miles are year. Is that correct? Do you also take the 400 on long trips or use another car for that? Also, have you any special maintenance plan to keep your car that reliable? Finally, what is the rust-proofing like on your '84 Fcar? Are you doing anything special there as well? I'd love to drive my 308 more but, alas, I only take it out for pleasure drives when a breakdown wouldn't be anything more than a drag (for the record my 308's been very reliable but still, it's a '79). I wanna be more like you. You're right. Life is too short! Help me get over my fears!

 

When I am not travelling (by air - see pic) I drive it about 1k miles / month. Sometimes more, sometimes less. More in the winter when my other cars are put away. I do routinely take the car on long trips (my country house is 130 miles from my office, have also taken it on more than one 1k mile trips). No special maintenance plans, just follow the book and fix stuff that looks worn before it fails catastrophically. It was not clear to me whether 84s had the Zincrox rust proofing or not, but at least this one must have, as it shows NO rust after 3 harsh winters. Nothing special there, except frequent washes to remove the salt.

If your 308 is too nice to drive more, by something more disposable (400, mondial, etc.) and drive that daily! It is too much fun to do otherwise.
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Ferraris do require more maintenance. If you need a maintenance-free car, a Porsche is a better move. If you have the discipline to maintain a highly-strung Italian car, the Ferrari offers rewards I never got in my Porsche. I have another car to drive, so I don't ask versatility of my Ferrari.

My insurance on the Ferrari, as a second car, is a crushing rolleyes $360 per year ($1000 deductible, 5000 miles max annually; I'm over 40, which helps). You can certainly buy a great 308 for $45K or so, and then budget for a few thousand a year to maintain/repair it. You could argue that a $5000+ major service bill is a lot of cash, but then there was a post on this site about a guy who needed $10,000 of suspension work on his boring Merc S-Class. I would also argue that the depreciation on a new BMW is a less rewarding way to spend money than on maintaining something as rare and enjoyable as a Ferrari.

I've owned/driven several BMWs, so I'm not as clueless about them as you imply. They're practical, and good daily drivers, and the engines are tops among mass produced cars, but I'd put the M3 in the sports sedan category with cars like the Mercedes C63. I wouldn't suggest one to someone who wanted a Ferrari, anymore than I'd suggest a Range Rover. The other issue, at least here in southern California, is that every fifth car is a BMW 3 series of some flavor. If you want individuality and excitement, BMW doesn't do it anymore. By the time I sold mine (e46 coupe), I was having a hard time telling my own BMW from the other ones parked around it.

Then Bangle came along and the cars became hideous...

 

how did I KNOW you were going to say that: you purists and non-ABS guys....has that Hemingway quality

 

That's absolutely wonderful, but also 180 degrees removed from the norm. I agree that "low value" Ferraris like 400's are perfect cars for daily abuse but if something breaks on them they are far from easy and inexpensive to fix. I drive my 599 every day and I don't think of it as anything but a car. I think that is the secret. Once you figure out that after the hype a Ferrari is simply a car, it becomes easier to treat it so, rather than like it is something precious.

 

HEY don't forget the other things you can do [but if you have a Mondial T, DON'T put the beer in the trunk.....]:
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Good points - Insurance is not a real factor if one has a good record anyway. My impression was essentially that he was looking for a car (sports car/performance car) in the 40-50k range, and just so happened to have a 308/328 as a prospect. I didnt gather that he was specifically after the Ferrari experience. Now I get where you are coming from.

And yes, Bangle is insane... X6 prime example....

In that case, a late 328GTS is a good start for the OP (or even a Mondial T) - I stick to my recommendation and say try for a later 348TS. Who ever told you (the OP) that they are the "worst" Ferraris, could be wrong . . The later 348s are not bad cars at all.

 

So there you are. I like Porsches just fine but park a 328 next to a 911 and see which car people check out the most.
Also, I've had kids (and their parents) come up and ask about the car at gas stations. It's fun.

 

But that goes for any Ferrari, and I'm not convinced that maintenance costs outside of normal wear items like tires, brakes and oil changes, are that much higher on a car driven 10k/year than on a car driven 1k/year.

 

I had a great time driving a 348 Speciale several yrs ago... It is not a brilliant car, and far from Ferrari's best "v8", but I think respect is still due.. It was the introduction for the 355, one of the best looking Ferraris of the 90s.

If thats what he thinks, I wonder what he thinks of the 308GT4 . . . (or even the 400a)

Only fair 400 is the i , post 1980...

 

I disagree; ownership of a Porsche Boxster is not common like a Honda. I've owned a number of Porsches including the classics and in my opinion the best Porsche for the buck is the modest mid engine Boxster. I've tracked, rally and autocross and no worries about breakage. Boxsters are fun, reliable and cheap to maintain unlike 944,928 and other European sports cars.
Please note the Boxster save Porsche factory and is now the most profitable independent car company.

What makes a sports car qualify an exotic? Is it the maintenance cost or performace...hmmm, I choose the later

 

Porsche there is no substitute.. Although, Ferrari cars are sexier and sound better.

 

The 348 has its issues. I wouldn't hold it up as Ferrari's best model, but frankly it is more dependable than some of the high six-figure classics, so "worst" and "best" are hard to define. The 348 brought a lot of changes -- robot assembly, unit body, longitudinal V8 design, Bosch Motronic engine management technology, etc. -- and the resulting car predictably has more issues than the 328 (which evolved from the 308 which evolved from the 246 which was basically a 1960s design...)

To be fair, Luca de Montezemolo had just taken over Ferrari around the time of the 348 launch, so he wasn't predisposed to praise the 348 either. I also know a couple of very happy 348 owners -- one who kept his 348 when he bought his 355. So, make of that what you will.

When people ask me what Ferrari sports car to buy to drive, I like the 328 for old school simplicity, centerfold looks, reliability and maintenance costs, and the 360 Modena six-speed for maintenance costs, performance and driving ease. I think most people could be happy with one or the other. 328s are stable in price, 360s mostly depreciated and going down a bit, but not to the point where it's reckless to buy one.

It's being made by a small, specialized company and in small quantities. Ferrari, Lamborghini and Lotus are the archetypes.

I don't think many would argue that a Boxster is exotic, although I have driven both the base and S versions and they are great to drive.

 

I'd say being able to admire the engine while standing next to the car is a qualification to be an exotic My brother owns a Boxster, and it is fund to drive. If the price were right, I'd consider buying one as a driver.

 

I agree with you that my use is atypical, but I don't think that my experience is much different than anyone else's would be if they started with a sorted car and treated it like a car as you wisely suggest (i.e. NOT like a Ferrari). We definetely agree that it can be a car if you treat it like one (the 400i was my 5th Ferrari purchase, and was purchased specifically to be a sacrificial anode for the others). If you treat it like a Kia, I think the risk of expensive faults is pretty small. For example, I blew the self levelling rear suspension return hose on my street in NYC. Would have likely been a $1k fix if I trucked it to F of whereever for repair (as if it was a Ferrari). Instead I drove it to the county (on the bump stops in the rear) and replaced the hose with a peice of fuel hose and two new clamps (as if it was a Kia), and have been good for the last two years. Rear diff got noisy, bought a good used replacement for 1.5k. No biggie.

The only really big item that could lunch itself ona 400ia (GM tranny) would be the motor. This seems unlikely, but if it did the truth is that the delta between a parts car ($13k) and a well sorted driver ($25k on its best day) is so small that if that happened one could just ebay the dead car, take his lumps, and move on. The total risk is prolly $10k at worst. At least IF one is mentally resigned to treat it like a Kia and to throw it away if it fails catastrophically. It is certainly the most fun "Kia" on the planet.

NOT trying to be argumentative - I respect you and your points and think we basically agree. I am just something of a evangilist on this topic - I think with the right attitude pretty much anyone can do what I am doing. Comments are of course welcome.

A

 

Ummm.... wow that's a nice jet! I find this thread really inspiring. The reason I bought my 308 in the first place was to drive it. It is a driver and not too nice to drive more, though I'll still park it once the snow starts as my '79 has no rustproofing. I guess my problem is I got a little too caught up with the prancing horse on the badge. I think aleventhal and 410SA have the right idea. My car 85k on the clock, scratches and dings and I simply love it. Why not use it as a daily driver?

 

I drive my 99 Ferrari 360 pretty much every day- I won't go out of my way to accomplish such a thing but I think I'll have 100K on the clocks by 2012.

I paid $83K for it. As best I can tell, you can part out a non-wrecked Ferrari for about $60K.

So, assuming about $5000 every 20,000 miles in basic maintenance and belts, clutches and brakes, That's $43K in depreciation and operating costs. I'll be pretty conservative about the "extras" on servicing. If it breaks, I'll fix it.

Today, if I bought an 09 M5 for $99,000 it would be worth about $35,000 in 2012- so it's actually MUCH cheaper (about 50% cheaper, in fact) to drive a Ferrari than a run-of-the-mill BMW. I don't see why more people don't see this math, they are just cars folks.

You're only young once. You may as well enjoy the small things... like a Tubi exhaust in a loooong tunnel, Angry Prius Owners and mothers clutching their children on street corners in shock and awe. And, I'm putting a cupholder in my Ferrari for my Starbucks and I don't care WHAT you guys say!

 

Awesome! The shock and awe and the cupholder, I mean!