Question re: wrecked 2001 360 Spyder

I worked at a tire shop when I was in High School, I never needed to over inflate a tire to seat the bead. As a matter of fact, after the bead seated, they often needed more air.

 

I generally find 44 PSI is a max and my late 540 had 39 PSI in the rear tires so I don't think that's out of norm for sportier cars.

 

What's left of it......

I was joking with my statement but the fact remains only cars insurance PAYS to have repaired have an Accident History......he at this point can still pick which his cars has at the end of this process...

Sorry, if I wasn't clear.

Dimished Value is very real but sometimes hard to quantify........especially if you do not sell the car.

 

With more tire on the ground the likelihood of picking up debris increases.

 

If Lolaman likes 'em, I say "thumbs up""

The 360s are definately an interesting construction.......

 

That sounds ominous. Anyone know?

 

The whole frame is a combination of extrusions, plates and cast assembly nodes, so it's actually pretty easy to repair.

Not cheap however, and each joint has it's specific method required....

 

1) I read a story on a Porsche forum where a guy rolled his Porsche at an open track day and got his insurance to pay on the premise that it was not a competitive event. Read your policy the first paragraph usually says no competetive events Racing, Pushing, Pulling, Climbing, etc., etc. Since it was an SCCA school...

2) A friend who is an insurance exec once told me "Just threaten to take your insurance company to court. They won't go because judges look at insurance companies like faucets that money come out of."

In this case it looks like it would be worth contacting a lawyer.

The threatening sure worked for me. I once had a car stolen after I only owned it 30 days. They offered me 75% of what I paid for it, citing the old "they loose most their value as soon as you drive them off the lot". I said, I am going to be satisfied even if I have to take you to court. The guy I was talking to said he would talk to his supervisor and get back to me. One hour later they called and said "go to the dealer, pick out any car of equal value and we'll pay for the car plus the sales tax".

P.S.
I was at Mid-O racing this weekend and I saw the car. I estimate $55K in repairs. We should get a poll going.

 

I recommend that you not make threats to the Insurance company. When I defended Insurers there was always a small group of people who got run around in circles because they made useless threats. They called it the "as***le tax". There are several kinds of Insurance exclusions relevant to this claim. The most common exclusion in high end insurance policies centers on whether there is wheel to wheel competition or timing. Since most Track Days are not officially timed and do not allow competition you are safe if that is what your insurer is looking at. Some of the lower rent carriers like State Farm , however, use an exclusion that centers on where the car was. If it was on a track that was used for racing WHETHER OR NOT there was racing you may have some problems. You need to use your insurance agent as an ally and work closely with them. If you have the second type of exclusion you should consult with a lawyer who really specializes in insurance coverage and recovery. You won't find him or her on TV. Good Luck

 

I know for a fact that Hagerty will NOT cover it. I just had this discussion the other day with them.

The only company I know of that covers on-track incidents is Westfield Insurance....who actually sponsors Mid-Ohio.


I'm glad to hear you are OK and that it was not your fault....we were all standing in the paddock and heard a horrible shrieking of tires, and ran to see what had happened. When we saw where the incident was we knew something other than driver error had to have happened.

I hope that you get it repaired well and will join us for future events!

 

From talking with a Ferrari dealer, 01 would be in the $125K-$135K range from a dealer on a car with less than 10K miles. With an accident history, minus $30K. If you were to trade it into a Ferrari dealer, they wouldn't even put it on their floor and would send it right to a wholesaler or auction.

 

+1

Challenge memories...

 

Depends on how it was fixed and by who. There are quite a few folks nationwide who could repair it well enough so that 99 out of 100 could not tell, and no one could tell if someone didn't tell them where to look. Not that that would happen.

They're just cars, for goodness sake. Many older cars at Monterey this week have been through more than this one...

AFA a blanket depreciation for accident damage, that doesn't exist.

Get someone who can fix it properly (Jack or Korosserie) and roll on.

 

Honestly if it is $50k or $60K to fix it. It might not be worth fixing if you are going to turn around and sell it anytime soon. You might come out better to sell it like it is. There are a few 01-02 spiders with no repaint and recent service that can be had for $115k to $130k and that is asking price. Once you add a story to a car, alot of potential buyers are out of the pool. All you pretty much have left are people that are trying to get into a F-car for as little money as possible.


I'm glad you guys came out of this safe, that is what's important. It's great your not letting it get you down at the end of the day it's just a car and that it can be replaced or repaired.

 

+1 My experience also. I insured my 348 in January with Hagerty, and asked if driving during club organized track days (not a race just on track) could be covered. They clearly stated NO. I would even doubt they would cover damage in autocross events off-track. I would verify with my insurance carrier before participating in any off-road event whether on or off-track.

 

Glad to hear you're okay.
Racing or even running on a track has it's dangers. In the nineteen years of racing I have been involved in, there is certainly a Tech inspection but it is also up to the entrant to make sure they have safe equipment before going to tech inspection. If one has an equipment failure there's only one person usually to blame. When one makes the decision to hit the track with a car all insurance coverage is null and void with any incurred damage unfortunately the owners responsibility. Harsh certainly. I have had two roll overs in the past nineteen years, one the fault of a sheared axle, the next as a result of poor driving by another racer in a borrowed car with a terminal case of "red mist". I had no recourse and had to pay for all repairs and the rebuilds. Just the way it is.
So, the best thing here is be glad you are okay, not in a wheelchair or worse and realize sheetmetal can be repaired or replaced. It's difficult to put into perspective when you have emotional attachment to the situation, but time will heal that also.
A point of fact is, one mile on a race track is the same as 1000 miles of highway driving if you're pushing things to the limit.
best regards

Russ

 

And they should NEVER be inflated to the max pressure


Did you get any pictures of the tire that blew?

 

I was told that you should check and inflate tire pressure only after they cool down. How does this affect it if you checked tire pressures and inflated immediately after a drive?

I was just repeating what I was told from a Ferrari dealer. The confirmation of an accident including damage indicator on Carfax resulted in a $30K less depreciation to him. I'm sure a flat value is not entirely accurate. This conversation came from me asking him if an 01 spider (albeit red instead of yellow) with known accident history at a non-Ferrari exotic dealer was priced fairly.

 

That is correct. Air expands when it gets hot, so when the air in your tires is hot (after driving) it expands and increases pressure. I believe it only takes about 15 mins for the air to cool down for the most part, maybe longer depending on circumstances.

Looking at the picture it's kinda hard to tell but I'll bet the tire picked up something. I can see a couple small tears in the sidewall, but that could have been from the broken rim. What I did notice is that the tire isn't shredded like in most blowouts. That is why I believe it was probably a small piece of car or a nail or something that caused the explosion, or possibly failure from the tire being raced. Could have been a repaired tire like others posted. After they fix it, if you can, get a look at the tire see if it has a patch on the inside

 

I would be very worried about the state of the gearbox.

I know on some cars a hard hit on the rear wheel can push the driveshaft in and break internals in the gearbox...

I am not sure if that is the case with 360s.

I must say you seem to be taking this very well. I had a car burn at the track with me in it and I remember just being happy to have not been hurt! You can replace cars...

 

Maybe go to Challenge wheels too, I hate to see the way the five spokes break apart like that..

I suppose a Challenge wheel could fail also but stress would be better spread over that design.......

Although they all break I have a big piece of an Enzo rim here as a paperweight, found it over by an oak tree, on Allen Parkway

 

Is it possible to recover any of your loss through a tax deduction if you were to voluntarily "total" the car, and them claim an unrecovered loss?

I hate to say it, but any time that I had this much damage on a machine, I would have totalled it and started over - just so that I would feel confident about what I was driving.

Best of luck, in any circumstances - it looks like you already had some good luck on this one.

BTW, are we totally sure that there was not a hairline crack in that wheel? - If so, somebody in the car's past might have just given it a really good shot of air back on the right rear out of frustration if it were slowly leaking down over the space of a few days.

 

Westfield is great - the only caveat being that they require you to have all of your policies with them, including homeowner's. However, if you're doing ANY amount of track events, it is well worth it, as NO other insurance company will cover on-track events, except the supplemental policies.

Hope to see you at future Fclub events!