The Measure of Schumacher....

+1

Statistics do NOT tell the whole story. Atleast 2 of MS's WDC involved aledged cheating, and the rest involved using a mute team mate to block the rest of the field ...
Pete

 

Where do you find this stuff?

 

in the senna sycophant handbook ... otherwise known as a crying towel

 

Classic Ted!

 

You did make the above statement, didn't you ?

 

Wow, someone got their Readers Digest "List of Best Quips" issue. How about this classic... Some People use "What Ifs and Could haves" like crutches, when they don't have a leg to stand on.

 

Exactly how many feel about Villenueve and Senna. Not at all to belittle their achievements, but at the end of the day, those two appeared to be "on the fringe", whereas Schumacher never drove in a manner that would cost him his life, or those of others. Yes, he did some really stupid stuff, but never intentionally ramming another car at 150 mph. And Senna, great driver that he was, rationalized bending the rules constantly. To the point of making Schumacher look like an angel.

So please, give me a break on these comparisons. If we could watch these guys race today, Schumacher would still come out on top by virtue of driving with Prost/Lauda like intelligence. Not some banzi antics that might cause harm to life and limb.

 

Tell this to Frentzen ... MS pushed him off at Montreal deliberately when leaving the pits and Frentzen was travelling at more than 150mph!

MS was as dirty as, but still brilliant to watch. All these guys had their moments ... but please no rose tinted glasses .
Pete

 

Haha, what about the Villenueve Jerez 97 incident and knocking Damon Hill out of the race?
Perhaps those from an earlier generation seemed to be more "on edge" in their time, because those cars had a lot less down force than what Schumacher was dominating with? In his era, sliding about would not be very fast.

 

Alex, sliding never entered my mind. I was talking about incredibly dangerous risks that could have hurt or killed others. Which in Villeneuve's case, was true.

 

While I'm not supporting MS with what happened at Jerez in '97, he was not going to kill anybody then, low speed, etc. ... but the Montreal incident, now that was very scary, forcing Frentzen on to the grass (which is only 1 car wide) at over 180mph!!!

As I'll always say, you need to take atleast 2 WDC's off MS to have his real tally ... and one off Senna's, etc.
Pete

 

?!?

Tell that to Mika Hakkinan.

Schumacher had an entire season forfeited as a penalty for intentionally ramming another driver. He was notorious for runnign other drivers into the grass, even his brother...at speeds in excess fo 200 MPH!

Schumacher put more drivers at risk INTENTIONALLY than any other driver in F1 history.

 

I think Andreas used it in a post before me.

 

Both AS and MS had their "WTF" moments, and Ron mentions the most intelligent F1 driver (IMHO) I've seen since I started following F1-Lauda. Andretti used to say he was very comfortable racing with Niki because "Niki would never do anything stupid"; you certainly couldn't say the same with AS and MS. Face it, but for the 1976 'Ring accident Niki would have won the WDC in '76 and he would have won three in a row. Niki always raced hard and CLEAN-something that can't always be said of AS and MS.

BTW, when it came to car development IMHO AS and MS couldn't hold a candle to Niki....

I'm sorry I missed Clark. 25 wins out of 72 starts is staggering, especially when one considers the fragility of the Lotus.

 

well, other than ramming JV off the track, i don't recall MS making contact and forcing anyone else off the track. regarding his brother, MS pushed him right till the pit wall. he did it with DC & Mika too, just like Senna did to Prost. i don't see anything wrong with that.

however, i do admit, the Jerez & Suzuka incident by MS and Senna was utterly foolish for someone their standard.

 

And you could easily add 2 to the tally because of the tire rule designed just to stop him winning.

 

Its laughable how one in particular here always stressed Facts only and yet when the Stats(Factual) are thrown out they are comparable to a drunk using a lamp post. Someone earlier mentioned Senna dieing at his peak.....I dont think so as he was 34 when he passed and I doubt he would have won many more races before he retired in the next couple of years. Now that both MS and AS are done with their careers it is only fair to use the stats to compare. Here is just one of dozens.

Schumacher 250 starts = 154 podiums
Senna 162 starts = 80 podiums

 

I think that's another area where generations can't be compared. In the era of Gilles and up through the end of manual shifting (early 90s), the cars were different animals that often had to be manhandled. A Ferrari that was generally accepted to be ill-handling ('81)could only do as well as it did at the hands of someone brave enough to push it past the limits and keep it together--usually We are just now seeing a slight return of counter-steering and actual car handling thanks to the elimination of traction control. It's my belief that if Michael had come along in the 70's, he would have been right there along with the others, pounding the car around the track, getting the back end out where necessary, exacting every last ounce he could/needed. Michael was a master of efficient, technical driving. But I think he also possessed (do we refer to him in the present or past tense, anyway?) a blend of Prost-like skills along with those of the pounders like GV, Senna etal. He just didn't need to display it as much.

 

Yes, there's no arguing with statistics:

podiums as a % of starts

Senna = 44%
Schumacher = 62%

Hamilton = 64%

I think we're on to something here.

 

Oh No! It's popcorn time

 

Not to play along with the stats, but technically 80/162 = 49%.

 

Sorry, dodgy batteries in the calculator!

 

LMAO........

 

That's OK. 49% is almost 50%. So I rounded it up to 100%. Ergo, Senna and Michael enjoyed a 100% podium rate. See? They were both good!

 

Excellent, I think sainthood must be on the cards for the pair of them.