I'm thinking I'm going to weld on new bung to lower the injectors as far as I can go and then put a spacer between the runners and plunum if I need more. It'll go and look stock, it's just not as easy as I'd hoped.....
How much would you normally charge to do that conversion. And presumably a Uk intake would be the same as a US intake?.
Sounds like what Atlantaman did and I really like the lines he made . . can't recall what he did with the throttle body though . . any thoughts on problems caused by the spacer 'cause of performance?
Mark, How much flow do you need from the injectors? Racetronix sells a shorty injector that is 630cc/min @ 300kpa that might just do the trick for you if it's a programmable EFI system. A friend of mine has used them with nice results on V8 hot rods hiding them so the engine still looks carb'd. http://www.racetronix.com/S107FM.html
But will they get the injector low enough, because it is shorter? I read the other thread about the EFI injector adapter Porsche guys use, but the opinium was that they would work on the Porsche 911 but not on the 308 because they didn't put the EFI injector low enough, so it would spray against the walls. Maybe I went to far with drilling, looking at my pic the injector sits in the way for incoming air. Image Unavailable, Please Login
I got a good news/good news/bad news message from the machine shop about the block today. The good news is the block is done, packed and ready to ship. The other news is they only charged me for 1/2 the labor and considered the other half a learing experience. The bad news is the 1/2 the labor I do have to pay for is $2532.00....it turns out it was a mother to get right....now I have to tell Lana......
The very specail price today is $2532.00 US I think it's about a $600-$700 job with the fuel rails. This is the first one of these I've done and it takes longer than it seems like it should.
Have you or anyone that thinks it's a problem actually looked at the spray pattern? See my layouts in previous post showing the angle of the spray pattern and where the wall is relative to the injector . .. there are different spray patterns available but the atomization on the injectors I used is supposed to be one of the best . .. the negative being they are more likely to have problems plugging up with dirt/deposits when shutting down hot with the fuel boiling off . .. point being everything's a compromise . .. my objective was to make a 308 2Vi that was fast without breaking the bank or going gray doing it . Yeah I'm sure in theory it's better to have the injector down a little further, but necessary & practical? Based on my first hand experience with this I still wouldn't go to the trouble. I have 300 very hard hrs on my motor with this setup and have no problems that are related to pooling/poor atomization. I'm not running sequential EFI either and was going all the way to 8300 rpm with my old cam setup. Cheers.
Man and this was just modifying an intake . .. can you imagine doing something like putting a V12 in a 308 and modifying the block for TR heads? . . .hee hee . . oh that's right . .. you are . Has anyone approached you about starting your own engine manufacturing co. or auto manufacturing co.? If I had the bank I'd snatch you up and have you all to myself . Cheers, Sean
I think the lathe work is done on the cam blanks. I had to leave work a little early and 2 were finish so I brought them home, the 3rd had 10 minutes to go and the 4th was to run.....but it was going to be close. I'll pop in tomorrow and see if the other 2 are done. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
In other news the block shipped today so I should have it back in a week or so. I talked to them a bit today before paying them to try to figure out why the heck it cost so much and was still a little confused. I told the them I thought it was pretty straight when I sent it and they thought I had done an amazingly good job .so I guess it just came down to them not wanting to make any mistakes and taking the time to check everything twice, then check it again before cutting. But its straight now so thats what matters. The one new problem I have is that when they cut the counterbores for the cylinder they ended up breaking through in a couple places .apparently I didnt get enough weld on the bottom of the deck everywhere and Im sure not going to do anymore welding now that its straight. They went ahead and cut all the counterbores straight and to the same depth and also cut a counter bore at the bottom of the water jacket thinking I could seat on that like the engine was originally. When I gets back Ill have to have a good long look at everything and see what I want to do with the cylinder design and get them rolling .which means Im also going to need to decide what I what to do about head gaskets .I was happy not thinking about it ..so things just hurt my brain and this is one of them ..
I take my hat off to you Mark, truly a crazy project!! Let me know when you've finished and I'll ship over my twin turbo Jag V12 for some "mk e" attention ;-) Hopefully I'll be driving it out of the garage for the 1st time ever this week, do you know roughly how long till yours is running? and what power it will produce? Regards Nick http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?p=137929975#post137929975
Yours is coming along nicely! Mine won't run until about June '09 I'm thinking and only then if I really keep after it. I'm planning for about 750hp at 8500-9000 rpm. I'll be happy with anything over 700.....we'll see. Image Unavailable, Please Login
A couple more pictures of the cams. One shows the sprocket alignment which looks pretty good, I'll know for sure when the block gets here and I can do a real test fit.....I know Newman is STILL waiting for me to get on with it The second just shows the 3 cams side by side, the 400, mine, the TR with the lobes aligned. I did a bit more work on the port and it's better....I think I'm going to call it done...at least until I make the intake and see what I have with the manifold and throttle body in place. Right now I have .05" - 17 (low becasue the seat is not really finished) .10" - 52 .15" - 77 .20" - 97 .25" - 112 .30" - 125 .35" - 137 .40" - 144 .45" - 150 .50" - 156 Still a tad lower than I had hoped, not WAY better than stock and I don't want holes in the port so I'm not going to grind it out any more......at least not today The intake cam will be about .45" lift and 240 duration (at .050 lift) I think....maybe a touch more of each but I thin .475 and 250 duration (at .050 lift) is the absolute limit and I don't know if I want to be that agressive. I'll see what the cam grinder has to offer in that range. With the flow a touch low and the valve smaller than planned more duration won't do too much harm so I may go .450-.460 and 250 duration. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
I think I'm going to take a ride up to Vic's place the end of the month. I'd like to run the TR head on his flow bench becasue I know what the exact hp/cfm and hp/fps is when the numbers come off his flow bench. I also need to pick up the QV heads for ebay along with a couple part for my HD that is on ebay now (need to pay the machine shop and cam grinding bills).
I was playing with the simulation software a bit tonight. Here's the engine using the new flow numbers and valve sizes and an aggressive 230 duration(at .050 lift) cam with .450 intake lift, .400 exhaust. Below is the original simulation with more mild ramp 240 duration cams and higher estimated flow numbers. They are about 15 hp peak hp different but the new engine has a much smoother torque curve with a lot more low end, it's really a much better street engine. The down side is it's harder on the valve train.....but it's a better engine. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
It will be the stock 308 trans. There are a couple TT 308s out there making 700+ hp that seems to work with the stock trans so in theory it will handle it.....but we'll see. The stock clutch is another matter, there is no hope for that working. I will be using the same triple disc carbon-carbon clutch I ran with the supercharged v8, it's supposed to be good to 800 ft-lb torque....so again we'll see.
Hey Mark, this yur neighbor John. Wanted 2 c yur bik on ebay, but did not know where 2 find. If u could tell that would be great.
Well, you know i have a good tranny case and all sorts of gears and shafts just sitting around. So if anything happens with that poor gearbox of yours...................you know where to reach me.
Here you go http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=017&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&viewitem=&item=270263047650&rd=1 For everyone else, my neighbor John offered to help out by spending some time running the die grinder making things pretty.
I almost forgot. I sent the cam guy an email Sunady and followed up with a call today. I think I was confusing him badly with what I thought I wanted. He's going to take a look at the data I sent and get back to me.
