360 drivetrain noises - diagnose? | FerrariChat

360 drivetrain noises - diagnose?

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by SoftwareDrone, Jul 11, 2008.

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  1. SoftwareDrone

    SoftwareDrone F1 Veteran
    Sponsor Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 19, 2004
    7,805
    San Jose, California
    Full Name:
    Mike
    Whenever I am on the "edge" between having a load on the drivetrain and not having a load on the drivetrain, I get some clanking and clunking noises. For example, when you are driving maybe 35 MPH and barely have your foot on the gas, the car will start to oscillate until you either get off the gas or get on it. When this oscillation happens, I get the clunking sound as the drivetrain loads and when it unloads. I've replaced the motor mounts, front end ball joints, transmission mount and the exhaust mounting blocks. What else could it be? I've read about some people replacing their half shafts in the back - could that be a contributor? Could it be the brake pads?
    Thanks in advance.
    :)
     
  2. zippyslug31

    zippyslug31 Formula 3

    Sep 28, 2007
    2,075
    PDX
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    Kevin M.
    "could" is an awfully fuzzy term. Could it be? Sure. But "likely", I don't think so myself.
    I think you would know if it were brake pads (different sound and not really a clunk under load) so I'm scratching that one out.

    Half shafts? Maybe.... I only say maybe because it sounds like you eliminated all the more obvious things. Sucks to just start to throw parts at the car though but sometimes this feels like all you can do.

    Instead of the entire half shafts, how about just the CVs?


    Sorry, just ramblings.... but thats where my thought process takes me.
     
  3. SoftwareDrone

    SoftwareDrone F1 Veteran
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    Jan 19, 2004
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    Thanks for your ramblings. What would be great would be a procedure so I could test my axles/half shafts. I'm wondering if it could be as easy as just getting under there (with the wheel off of the ground), gently turning it clockwise/counter clockwise, and looking for some play?
     
  4. cwwhk

    cwwhk Formula 3

    Nov 13, 2003
    1,535
    Hong Kong, Tokyo
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    Wayne
    Put your car on jack stands then check for free play in the CV on both the gearbox side and wheel side, wheel bearing, A-arm bushings, and tie rods. Give everything a good forceful tug to ensure they are not loose.

    There have been at least 2 revisions on the tie rods. The old rubber ones can appear OK, but can actually be loose. .

    If nothing is obvious, then can alway run the car on jack stands to see what's making the sound. Do make sure the car is secure and level on the jack stands. You don't want it falling off the stands. :D
     
  5. Glen_Lloyd

    Glen_Lloyd Formula Junior
    Owner

    Dec 13, 2003
    785
    Lloydminster AB
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    Glen
    Does it happen in all gears or just one?
     
  6. ferrarilou

    ferrarilou Formula Junior

    Apr 13, 2004
    513
    US
    Full Name:
    Lou Menditto
    Can you describe the oscillation a little bit more? Does it feel like an engine running issue, or a suspension issue?
    Are there any other issues with the car other than the clunking sound and this oscillation.


    Lou
     
  7. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Four Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    For this discussion it might be important to include some other info.

    Do you drive the car hard? I don't mean 40 in a 35 zone, I mean a lot of hard accel and decel? Is it an F1 or three pedal? How many miles are on the car?

    What other rear end maintenance has been done to the car in the past? Is the car lowered? Are the modifications to the car?

    The more info, the better chance some of the really smart guys here will be able to get you in the neighborhood of your problem.

    DM
     
  8. SoftwareDrone

    SoftwareDrone F1 Veteran
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    Jan 19, 2004
    7,805
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    Mike
    This forum is so great! Thanks everyone for the helpful information. :))
    Well, I did put the rear on jacks, took off the wheels, removed the shields covering where the axles enter the transmission, then had someone gently rotate the rotors back and forth (clockwise/counter clockwise) and there is absolutely no play in the CV joints. There does seem to be a lot of play in the transmission (??) because you can rotate the rotor almost an inch before it stops. I do not know whether this is normal or not.
    I drive the car extremely hard. I never abuse it, but I always drive hard. Also, the car now has 50,000 miles on it. When I rotate the rotors to the point where they run out of free play, the "clanking" sound is similar to what I hear when the drivetrain oscillates.
    This is a three pedal car. I "baby" the clutch (it now has 33K miles on it and is still wonderful), but I do enjoy shifting very fast.
    I also did a cursory shakedown of the suspension components and nothing seemed loose.

    There is one other thing that may or may not have something to do with this.
    About a year ago, a warning light started showing up on my dash about once a month and continues to do so. The light looks like my car, but up on four jack stands. I looked in the owners manual for a definition, and this light indicates a fault in the suspension system. That's all it says. Having said that, I think it might be a good idea for me to take it to Brian Crall for a diagnosis and possible repair.
     
  9. Schumi76

    Schumi76 Formula Junior

    Feb 15, 2006
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    NC
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    Marco

    Is Brian ever planning to return to Ferrari Chat ??? I am sure a lot of people miss him............................
     
  10. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Four Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Warning light is probably a suspension sensor/actuator. Can cause the suspension to go rock hard if it shuts down all the active suspension stuff. A trip to the a good service guy who can plug you in to a Ferrari diagnostic computer will throw some codes at your guy and get you in the neighborhood.

    I think there are either four or eight of these on the car, can't recall if each corner has one or two. Can be intermittent as it was in my car which we chased down to the actuator.

    DM
     
  11. SoftwareDrone

    SoftwareDrone F1 Veteran
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    Jan 19, 2004
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    I can't speak for Brian, but I think that he's not nearly so disappointed in the people who give him a hard time on here as he is about the fact that it's allowed to happen. I can certainly empathize with him.
     
  12. zippyslug31

    zippyslug31 Formula 3

    Sep 28, 2007
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    Kevin M.
    BTW Mike, pretaining to your warning light.... very common problem I'm told.
    I just had 2 of the actuators/sensors replaced on my car. Total ran me somewhere around $750-$1k (from memory, subtracting other work I had performed). FWIW.
     
  13. SoftwareDrone

    SoftwareDrone F1 Veteran
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    Thank you, this is helpful.
    Also, I think I may have some insight on my clanking problem. I checked my car against a newer 360, and I'm thinking the culprit here is the backlash on the ring and pinion gears. With the amount of miles on my car and the manner in which I drive, it makes perfect sense. I made an appointment to have both checked out.
     
  14. SoftwareDrone

    SoftwareDrone F1 Veteran
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    Jan 19, 2004
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    Well, I was close. The problem is in the differential, but it is not the ring and pinion backlash. It's the differential positraction clutch packs chattering. Some additive was added to correct this problem, and I'll report back after a couple hundred miles.
    :)
     
  15. SoftwareDrone

    SoftwareDrone F1 Veteran
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    Jan 19, 2004
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    Okay, here is my report as promised: Problem Solved! All of the drivetrain noises are completely gone. The car feels tight. When I go around a corner and lightly press on the gas pedal, instead of clunking, I get a little chirp from the rear tires. Hard to believe that two little bottles of friction modifier solved this!
    :-D
     
  16. ferrarilou

    ferrarilou Formula Junior

    Apr 13, 2004
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    Lou Menditto
    Do you know what oil was in the gearbox and what friction modifier was added to solve the problem?


    Lou
     
  17. Hoodude

    Hoodude F1 Rookie
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    May 5, 2007
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    RE
    Mike,
    Thanks for the update and good news.
    cheers,
    RE
    .
    ps,Did they put new oil in the rear drive or just the additive?
     
  18. SoftwareDrone

    SoftwareDrone F1 Veteran
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    Brian Crall took care of this. I'm sure he would be more than happy to help you.
    :)
     

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