FML: The ONLY Pricing Resource?

I don't know anything about baseball cards - except that my mother told me that when she was a little girl, her brother pissed her off, so she ripped up his Mickey Mantle rookie card.

But the Ferrari Market Letter is probably the best source for current market value. Cavallino magazine also has an index similar to the FML's, but I prefer to look at the Market Letter. There has been much speculation as to how the FML arrives at some of its Asking Price Index prices, but for the more regularly for-sale cars, the FML is widely regarded as the definitive source.

 

FML's asking price index is an index of prices asked in FLM no more no less.

Cavallino Market Price listings include cars that no longer exist and have never been sold so I'd disregard that data.

Sports Car Market is an accurate reporting of recent auction sales so it's pretty informative.

FCHAT does have a lot of information if you know how to separate the wheat from the chaff.

Many sales are private and the price paid is not revealed and often reported erroneously. Mike Sheean's reporting of the price payed for 0854 in SCM is an example.

 

i am a dino guy. if you look at the fml dino gts "asking price", it has dropped BIG time.

i am biased, but i don't know where one would find a gts at this "asking" price, surely not in the fml. we all know there are many cars that are sold outside of the public advertising, but even at the current price, i know of NO cars at that price. i am not an expert, but i know of many of these cars selling privately.

i am not questioning the index, but it is more complex than just advertised cars in the fml. perhap gerald would like to respond. i feel pretty confident in saying that a really great 246 gts will have an "ask" and/or sell price well above the $157k price currently showing in the fml.

 

One thing that apparently a lot of people don't know is that Gerald is a professional historian. So when he first put together his API, he was looking for an objective benchmark. It is really too bad that people don't take the time to READ anymore. Because if they did, they would understand that the API is an ASKING PRICE INDEX.

As most folks know, asking prices ain't necessarily the same as gitting prices. But WTF do I or Gerald know? Like I said, it seems like nobody reads crap anymore. Maybe dis is one of the problems with things now-a-days. Nobody has time to think anymore. Since we live in the time of the sound bite, it seems like the best that anyone can do is just grab your dick and let fly.

Dale

 

http://www.nadaguide.com has Ferrari prices under Classic Cars. It reports a wide range, for example a 2003 360 F Spider is currently low retail 141,900 average 152,700 and high retail 172,600. I expect most of the 360 at dealers would sell at the high retail since they have under 10K miles and are cosmetically flawlwss. Someone reported that Alger has two F1 spiders asking 175,000 and someone else reported the average sale is 5% below dealer asking price I would conclude 166,250 is about the market. By the way, with 360 there is not much difference between 2002-2005.

 

I was referring to the Auction prices reported in SCM for actual cars that have recently sold at public auction as being instructive.

Now that FML allows adds from dealers without prices IMO it's value is greatly diminished.

I wonder which dealers that Cavallino consults with has or has ever had a P3 for sale...

 

I don't think FML prices are anywhere close to real. I feel it's a dealer collusion rag where all dealers price their cars within a few thousand of each other. My experience is that real selling prices are quite different.

As someone above said, it's just good for asking price.

The historical content is very good and accurate. It's worth reading for that, but FChat is better for real life buy/sell transactions.

 

First a retraction - If anybody took away from my post that I have worked on the FML's API, I apologize. This was poor wording on my part. I have never worked on the API, nor is it likely that I ever will.

Second, I have heard Gerald lecture on the subject numerous times, and I share his frustration that many people fail to understand the English language anymore because the concept is simple. You need two things: (1) a VIN, and (2) an asking price. This explains why Gerald doesn't not let people post ads without an asking price (except for the recent brain fart by FNA).

Trust me on this because I built a similar database for Maranellos. The amount of apparent fraud by "sellers" of late-model Ferraris on the Internet is stunning. It seems that a number of "dealers" list cars for sell that they don't have the right to sell. Imagine that.

But once you have a database of real cars with real asking prices, then you have a point of beginning. What you do with it is up to you. I generally apply a 10% to 20% discount to derive a getting price. But your milage may vary.

Long story short, if you don't like Gerald's API, subcribe to the FML and use this info to start building your own database.

Dale

 

Well said ! I couldn't agree more .

 

try this
http://www.carsthatmatter.com/

 

Well if the WE includes you and me, I agree. However, based on posts that I have seen over and over and over again griping about how the API is too HIGH! I'm not so sure.

My point is that if you don't like the FML API, make your own. Just make sure that you use real cars with real VINs.

Dale

 

The API is a rolling average of asking prices...aqs Gerald has stated many times. In a rapidly changing market in either direction OR in a market with very few cars, the API will not be accurate, but he never said it would be. This has also been discussed on FCHAT before

 

in a world as specific and varied as Ferrari cars there is no authority on pricing other than the buyer and seller on a specific deal coming to agreement. To Jim's point, rare cars that haven't been involved in a transaction for a very long time have no basis for estimating their current value, other than a done deal between seller and buyer.
I dabble here and there in esoteric cars and every deal is a brand new world.