308 2V guide tools

Interesting puller. Curious though, in the pictures some of the bolts have long thin pins to run against the head studs, and the opposing dont?

Also, your guides have what appears as a snap ring groove, and threads or some type of serrations?

Kermit ran into a bad head once that had bronze guides that were really stuck. The drifts he had, like yours, mushroomed the ends of the guide and made them impossible to drive out, he had to drill them out. From that day forward he claimed he would tap them for threads and pull them out. Guess he kind of scared me but as mine appear to be steel its probably no big concern eh? Maybe it was the heads from hell, lol.

 

Thanks for this thread, I never realized one could just knock out the guides. So I did and they were not extremely difficult to remove. Of course I didn't have a fancy tool, just an allen head M8 bolt... But today I received and installed the new guides. I knew I should have ordered 17 and not 16 because I messed up the first one, I had found a perfect fitting socket before but today I took the wrong one and messed up the collar and then there was no resque. I did install the others but I noticed the valves don't fit anymore in the guide so I ordered a 8mm reamer. Showing my ignorance, but did I do something wrong or is it always like that? Or does your tool protect the inside of the guide, reaming afterwards should not be necessary?
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That is because, unlike you, this the first and last time I ever plan to do something like this! So I don't want to invest in tools, I would have brought the heads to the engine shop originally but I prefer to keep them with me so I can work on them while waiting for other stuff.
The guides were a perfect match for the valves before install, but now they have narrowed were they are clamped in the head, no I didn't mushroom them, the top and bottom I can still slide a valve stem in. They are a much tighter fit then the old ones, yes they were in the freezer and I ordered and got standard size. I can insert the reamer from both sides, I will have to see what gives the best chance of not going sideways with the reamer, hope it centers itself.

 

Sean, did you get the Norwood valve spring package with the titanium retainers and if so, how do you like them? I think I need them too...

 

Sean,anymore thought on making a valve spring removal tool?

 

I should have responded in the other thread but it turns out that my smoke problem was more fuel/rich related than oil.I looked at the smoke closer and it appeared more black than blue,but the oil consumption had me pinned.I've since switched my main jets to 125's and adjusted the float heights as well and that has just about cured the problem.I still have a little bit of smoke on startup after the car has sat for a few days but not like before.I probably might still look at the valve guides seals when I next have to do a valve clearance adjustment.Thats why I wondered if you had thought of anything.

 

I was evaluating shim possibilities, but there is only room for 1 mm and that would not be enough (if in the future I want over 1 bar boost) then I was thinking of asking J Patterson at Norwood if he would sell me half of his spring package only for inlet valves, I'm also researching the web for suitable springs. If your springs are still ok I would want them, but my budget is limited.

 

I saw the SF spring set but thought it was just a replacement for the std springs, it says "Valve spring set (made from high quality steel)", but if the picture is of the actual springs, it seems the outer spring has 1 winding less which would mean a stiffer spring.
I found suitable springs here, the RR4: http://www.performancesprings.com.au/46dualsprings.html but they are in Australia and have no distributers that ship worldwide.
In my search I found VW beetles and Type 4 have springs of the right diameter but they give a very high pressure, maybe too high. But there are some defect VW heads around here from my cousin, will examine when I have time.

 

Just as an aside we are redesigning the Ti retainers for the 2V motors. Should have the first set in a week or two. The previous sets did not have a real tight pilot which is most likely the cause of gauling on the hi lift cams motors. They worked well on lower lift cams but after I saw pics of what went on with Sean's engine we decided to make some changes.

We don't have to sell as a full set either just let us know how many you need but it will be a little while till I have them.

 

I ordered a set of 8 "sealed power" VS786 springs from rockauto, I think they should work, original specs between ()

Max Outside Diameter 1.335 (1.338)
Wire Diameter 0.185
Coils 5.8
Closed Height 1.6 (1.52)
Closed Press 55 (36.6)
Open Height 1.2 (1.16)
Open Press 165 (133)

 

Wow Bert,
Dimensionally you couldnt find a better match 'off the shelf'. That's +18.4 lbs in closing force on a 1.65sqin 2V intake valve, will completely offset 11.13 psi of boost, leaving OEM closing force. Most likely you could safely run up to 16-17psi or so of boost before the valves started to float.

James, care to share any of Norwoods hard gained experience here?

 

It is even a bit more because of the 1.52 versus 1.60 installed hight. I calculated 40 lbs extra seat pressure and that offsets 18.5 psi of boost. I want to start conservative on the boost level but experience learns (Mark E) one always wants more. Only thing that worries me is the price of the springs, their too cheap to feel comfortable with!

 

On the 2v 308s and Boxers we found the same issues with the springs discussed here. There is not a perfect relationship on calculating spring rate as related to boost but it works pretty close. In practical application we found that 2V and 4valve start boost induced valve float around the same boost pressure which is around 20psi with stock springs and retainers at 62 on the seat. It is difficult to determine intake float on the dyno but certain symptoms and then teardown inspection will indicate the problem. As a rule of thumb with the engine combos we run on street turbo motors we go to 100 on the seat for motors over 18psi and then 120 for 27 plus. One issue to consider before you toss big springs in is that it take a lot more energy to rotate the cams. I have never noticed increase wear on the valve train or drive system with higher spring pressures but if you rotate a 48 valve motor with 120psi springs you will notice a significant amount of additional effort is required to just rotate the engine.

 

Very useful information. Good to hear the 2 valve is not that sensitve to boost as expected. Of course it is all about pressure differences, not the absolute pressure in the inlet side. When the inlet valve is closing, pressure in the inlet and cilinder has more or less equalized, so there is no extra resistance when closing. And in the compression stroke cilinder pressure becomes much higher than boost level so no problem there also.
About extra resistance from heavier springs, I thought no energy is wasted. Extra energy for opening the valve is released when the valve closes but it probably is not that simple.
Anyway, it seems I would be save just shimming the std valve springs, I have ordered both shims and the heavier springs so I can decide either way.