308 Engine Rebuild & CIS to TWM Throttle Bodies Conversion Thread!

Sean, my apologies, my admittedly ageing memory had forgotten that discussion. Yours was a good tip too!

When it becams reassembly time I'd come to the conclusion that there was no way I could just install one of the inner races on each shaft w/o having a hadfull of balls. Which left the alternative of installing the clutch end bearings as an assembly after the shafts were in place.

When I was pulling the tranny apart, I had to tap the lay shaft out of the bearing on that side so that I could leave the 1st-Rev stack in the case. It wasn't a force fit, just a light drive fit, a brass drift with light hammer taps moved it out. The main shaft bearing I easily pressed off using a bearing knife & press.

So given the removal experience, I decided to tap the new inner races on. I had a long-time pro. Ferrari tech with me, ran it past him at the time, & he concurred that was the way he usually did those bearings.

In retrospect, if I had just thought to lay the bearings on a heating plate & warmed them up to about 200F - 225F, I'll bet I could have easily slid the inner races onto the shaft by hand!!! Got to add that tip to my WSM write-up!!

I know you mentioned opening up the bearing's ID, but like heating the bearings, I just didn't remember you'd suggested it when assembly time came around. Maybe if there hadn't been such a large amount of time between tear-down & reassembly I'd have remebered your tip.

NAH, like half his pizza customers he's going to let it get cold before he shows up. ;^)

 

My customers complain the slices,are to hot. Like I always tell them, it just came out of the oven, not a freezer.lol

 

cheers .. sometimes I've had a few too many beers and type things that someone's gonna remind me of that I've deliberately blocked out . . no one remembers every respose . .. do they?

that was a while ago.

cheers again . . just got back form Monterey and put faces to a few long time 308 mod'ers that I've spoken to a bunch .. cheers again . . what a drive.

 

Chris,
You're quite welcome. It was an interesting & educational project, very satisfying when it was done.

Also, the project gave me a complete transmission disassembly/reassembly procedure with lots of pictures for my 308 WSM.

 

Verell,
Is that the correct factory yellow paint?

Birdman

 

More importantly, where did he find the factory correct brush to apply it?



JIM

 

If this is your own house, Pizza, be thankful you have real wood siding, not vinyl cr**!! Plastic houses are devoid of character!!

 

did you take the diff apart and inspect any of the internals?

 

No I didn't.
The differential came from the 2nd transmission that we bought to get a set of matching good 1st-rev & 2nd-3rd gears. I wanted to keep the differential with the matching output shaft. In general, that tranny was in very good condition, relatively light signs of wear on all the gears, including their dog teeth. The tranny had been gone thru prior to our purchasing it, synchros were new, etc. Would have to replace the crown gear bolts: 8 x $57 & nuts: 8 x 4.30 = $490. Big $ to spend when there was no reason to believe the differential was in other than equally good condition.

 

I'll show you some pic's of what wears .. .. I re-used those nuts and bolts FWIW . . the diff internals were the first thing that wore on my car that made me tear into the box .. . it still shifted fine . . . the output/axle shaft teeth wear from the spider gears and there's some thrust washers in there that the tabs like to break off on.

Nice thing is you can pull the diff with the engine/gearbox in the car.

cheers

 

Reuse depends on which spec they were originally torqued to. The M10x1 ring nut bolt's torque spec was reduced from the original 75 ft-lb down to 58 ft-lb. I've since heard it was because the bolts were breaking in use. Before I reused the bolts, I'd have them magnafluxed. I would NOT consider reusing the nuts because of my experience with them (see link below).

Been There:
A few years ago, I had to remove & replace the differential with the engine/tranny in the car. See this thread:

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43305&highlight=boot+latch

Wasn't too bad, but I wasn't a happy camper at the time.


One of my ring nut bolts spontaneously broke! At the time the bolts were NLA! I eventually got lucky & picked up a set of used bolts cheap. Under magnification the threads were fine, & the bolts passed a magnaflux dye penetration test.

That project taught me more about fasteners & their application limits than I ever wanted to know. Was also the 1st time I ever single point cut threads with my lathe. Looking back, I'm glad for the knowledge, but there had to be an easier way to gain it!

 

A belated correction, in case someone other than Sean is reading. I meant to write 'Ring Gear Nut', not 'Ring Nut' - 2 very different things... :-{

 

Beautiful!
If the block is finished,
Install the heads
set the valves if not already done
new timing belts and tensioners
time the cams
set the ignition
ensure carbs all jetted the same way (don't laugh), bolt on set linkage
install low pressure pump (facet or Pierburg) and new fuel lines
start it up

You are going to have a motor to be very proud of.

 

Hey Chris!

Congrats on having the heads back! What did the head guy do? Valves, guides, seals? Anything else? Where are the new pistons?

Birdman

 

Oh yeah, and what did the head guy cost? (I'll be going down this road sometime.....)

 

I am very up on this motor - it should really be a great example of a Ferrari V-8. If it were only in a Mondial 8 to satisfy my personal curiosity... (j/k!)

Did Mr. Port Guy give you any numbers? that will give you a good idea of what you will have, although I am thinking probably Euro hp numbers and a lot of torque. You will notice a huge difference, just with the throttle response.

Although you probably know this, be sure you wire around the CIS fuel pump relay so the new pump gets power as soon as the key comes on. A little spoken of advantage here is that the lower pressure carb fuel pumps have less current draw, and are less likely to burn out connectors.

Also change out ALL of the fuel lines and filter - such cheap good insurance.

And, have we talked about exhausts, hmmmm.....?

 

First you need to fit 348/355/360 85mm bore liners then.......don't listen to me

 

You will not need to bore your cylinders unless they absolutely require it. A good dimple honing can rough up the surfaces a little bit so to help with seating the new rings. If you are recommended to bore your cylinders, a good .010" is the standard amount taken. I have seen 308 engines torn-down with the original honing marks in-tact still. The bottom ends of these engines are bulletproof.

Regarding your pistons. If you have your cylinders bored, then new pistons are required to match the new cylinder diameter. If you want 10:1 compression, the change will be in the dome size. Pistons companies will want a mold of your combustion chamber so the new dome design can be created. Some companies may know what the 308 measurements are already so you may not have to make a mold. It's best to ask. Making a mold is very simple regardless. I have used Ross racing pistons and JE pistons in the past. These are the only two companies I have worked with and it is not intended to say others are inferior. Both companies are very good although Ross will have your pistons completed considerably quicker than JE. Last time I checked, JE was at about a 8-10 week turnaround time and Ross was at a 2 week turnaround time. Both companies use a very similar aluminum composition and both offer about the same piston to wall clearance for our particular application.
With modern pistons, these engines take about a .0025 to .003 clearance if I remember correctly. The piston company will obviously want to know your cylinder diameter once honed so they can manufacture the pistons according to the optimal piston to wall clearance and also have a set of piston rings sent out with the pistons. I recommend requesting rings a little bit oversize so you can file-to-fit the rings for best results.

If you have never done this before, I would recommend having someone professional check your work and measurements or just have them do it. Your piston to wall clearance is incredibly important and you want to make sure that is dead-on.

R,
John